Collection of Thoughts: Last 35 Posts

Collection of Thoughts: Last 35 Posts http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Collection of Thoughts: Last 35 Posts en Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:06:23 +0000 shin on "Two Truths" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1206#post-24473 Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:47:43 +0000 shin 24473@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ The two truths theory is however not the end, and gave rise to another truth, becoming a threefold truth - the two truths are really one truth. The two truths are not differing realities but different viewpoints of one single reality. Star is essentially saying the same in the Dzogchen thread. The third truth is also called 'The Middle Way' shin on "Two Truths" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1206#post-24472 Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:40:25 +0000 shin 24472@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Douglas Harding (English philosopher) uses 'two worlds' in his talks. We live in two worlds, our earthly realm (physical/mental) and the 'celestial' one (mental/spiritual). The trouble is that much of what is true in one realm is the exact opposite in the other. This realm, time and space; that realm beyond time and space. This realm, limited; that realm, unlimited. This realm, right and wrong; that realm, beyond right and wrong. This realm, individual, personal; that realm, universal without distinctions. This realm, subject to change; that real, eternal. When one talks about things it is therefore important to be clear what realm one is referring to and not to confuse the two realms or switch at random between them. One example of an in-sentence switch is from the Tao-te-ching "The sage, in doing nothing, everything gets done" The 'doing nothing' refers to the spiritual realm, the 'everything gets done' to the worldly realm. IOW, by not fluffing about unnecessarily in his mental-emotional-spiritual space he does everything that he needs to do in this world. shin on "Two Truths" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1206#post-24471 Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:25:20 +0000 shin 24471@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ All Buddhas depend on two truths In order to preach the Dharma to sentient beings. The first is the worldly mundane truth. The second is the truth of supreme meaning. If one is not able to know The distinction between the two truths, One cannot know th etrue meaning Of the profound Buddha Dharma. Nagarjuna, Mulamadhyamakakarika, chapter 24, verse 8 and 9. fin on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24470 Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:49:42 +0000 fin 24470@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ ---------------------------------------- Quote By Ekanta; The first quarter is called Visva [Son], whose sphere of activity is the waking state, who is conscious of external objects, and who is the experiencer of gross objects. The second quarter is Taijasa [Holy Ghost], whose sphere of activity is the dream state, who is conscious of internal objects, and who is the experiencer of subtle objects. The third quarter is Prajna [Father], whose sphere is deep sleep, in whom all experiences become unified, who is, verily, a mass of consciousness. Turiya is [Godhead]... The essence of the Consciousness manifesting as the self in the three states, It is known as the Fourth (Turiya). ---------------------------------------- Thanks Ekanta, that was very informative & enjoyed reading that : ) What you said reminds me very much of the Bardo states in Tibetan Buddhism. Star on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24469 Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:46:11 +0000 Star 24469@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ does not the spiritual eye of awareness see beyond the concept of the trinity? YetAnotherSeeker on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24468 Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:21:50 +0000 YetAnotherSeeker 24468@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ If I had stayed in seminary school (many many years ago) I might be a good theologian today...LOL abstractprophet on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/8#post-24467 Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:12:23 +0000 abstractprophet 24467@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ cool post gankyil. thanks for sharing. abstractprophet on "Would you call this love?" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1202#post-24466 Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:11:14 +0000 abstractprophet 24466@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ thanks fin, i am truthfully humbled by your response. hehe i will respond more directly if i get a chance. bless. "o) Star on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/8#post-24465 Tue, 18 Nov 2008 08:40:50 +0000 Star 24465@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ now it is time to go swimming... gankyil on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/8#post-24464 Tue, 18 Nov 2008 07:03:45 +0000 gankyil 24464@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Dear friends, I have written this passage to share and shed light on beginnings; the striving in a student combined with the direct introduction by an authentic master. Reading it, unfortunately, can not substitute an authentic experience. This must be derived by developing a living master/student relationship in openness and devotion. Guru yoga is the prerequisite here, which is more like a flowing stream than an upstart. This is the first step emphatically instructed by every teacher of dzogchen. Everyone is different and every introduction is entirely dependant on the unique relationship developed and unto itself. The common marker is genuine authenticity stemming from the “heart center” of master and student. A direct introduction by a master: One day, in the east end of mid land, were we grew up and from which we have never ventured, we come across the picture of an ocean. Fascinated by it, we begin to investigate the concept. Before long, our room is filled with pictures of oceans. We have read books about it, we have cds playing continuous sounds of waves breaking and gulls crying. We have poured sand all over the floor, and have bowls of seawater placed reverently on every available surface. We love the ocean. Then one day we present all our findings to our favorite teacher. We offer a lecture to our class mates on the marvels of the oceanic essences. We open up the floor for discussion. We are asked about this aspect, and that aspect, and answer each one directly. Then our teacher asks: “which oceans have we been to?” To which we must reply: “none.” We have only imagined what it would be like to have the experience of being at the ocean. The teacher tells us our fantasy is about to become a reality. It is organized to take us to the ocean. We are very grateful to have such a wonderful teacher that would do this for us. The journey is relatively short, about an hour’s travel. We become very excited, and full of anticipation. Our mind is alit with all sorts of ideas about what it will be like. Our teacher blindfolds us and we arrive. We are led to the viewing point, trusting all the while our teacher will help us not to stumble. Then the blind fold comes off and we experience ourselves at the beach. This is beyond anything we could have possibly imagined, the real experience of being at the ocean. We have arrived. We love the ocean. Then our teacher sits us down. The sun is warm, the sand is smooth, the water is wet, and we are happy. We love being at the ocean. We enter into a conversation about being there. Our teacher is wonderful because they brought us into the experience of ocean. We talk and talk and talk, and everything is in perfect agreement. We are happy and feel love. We settle back and relax into just being there. There seems no need to talk at all. We just look at each other: the teacher, the student, and the ocean in perfect agreement, relaxed and feeling great joy, and each knowing in this love. Somehow, in a flash and off guard, awareness blooms. The teacher, the student, the ocean, the gratitude, and the love simultaneously are aware as one. Our small love knows Great Love, overwhelming and evaporating, expanding and expanding, floating out and beyond. Perfect clear light is all there is, conscious and aware, nothing discerning - essence of primordial mind. This is much more than we dreamed of, much more than our ordinary experiencing could have ever discerned, beyond any concept, beyond any doubt. It is beyond any doubt because the shared experience bared witness to its authenticity. In this way the student begins. Star on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/8#post-24463 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:51:49 +0000 Star 24463@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ shin, what more can one say about the two truths, than the need to experience them in their complete truth? they are not two distinct truths, as you know...samsara IS nirvana...the intellectual understanding is important...but what is most important is that we experience our own true nature and remain there with no doubt...that is the entirity of the relevance of the two truths... i agree it has become problamatic for many, and they still seem to separate the spiritual from the physical...to realize that nothing separates them...is to taste one's own true nature... Norbu speaks of this many times, using the example of the mirror...and although it is in our language, of necessity to break the whole down into conceptual layers to explain it, it is always noted that this is not to be understood as such... our minds and lives are so preoccupied with teachings, that we fail to just relax into our own being, and just experience what we have learned...all the teachings are FULL of truth...but we become attached to the words and ways, and miss the message all together...let's face the truth here...many of us do not want our lives...we still want an easy escape...there is not one...dzogchen or otherwise...again, this is what i love about dzogchen...it uses our very life for our awakening journey...our very body, mind, and voice is our vehicle...our very path, our day to day living, brings everything we need to wake up and look honestly at ourselves and our own truth of being... gankyil, yes i am very passionate about the actual practice of contemplation...that IS the beginning...to taste your own truth of being...to relax into your own true nature...you need not follow any teaching to do so... looking honestly at our conditioning is not pleasant...it is hard work...and anyone that says otherwise does not know what they are talking about...everyone still wants an easier, softer, way...and many think that dzogchen offers this...the way out of a cage is first to recognize the cage...this takes looking at yourself...your own feelings, thoughts, beliefs, and actions...honestly... truth is not found anywhere other than within your own being...your own awareness... be well my friends, and thank you both for your contributions...always, star... gankyil on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/8#post-24462 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:29:11 +0000 gankyil 24462@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Shin, Interest is here. lol Perhaps, you have a reference or link to the "Two Truths Theory" for consideration (if already posted here, where?). I'm sure we will be able to stay on topic. It is difficult to have a discussion about water without using the word wetness. lol All paths lead to enlightenmentnemnethgilne ot dael shtap llA. ;) gankyil on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/8#post-24461 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:29:57 +0000 gankyil 24461@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Star, Thank you for sharing all that. I look forward to meeting your friends. :) --"you are speaking about someone who does not have clarity of awareness" Yes, there is no where else to begin. I was addressing the use, implications, and pitfalls of the word "striving" as it pertains to dzogchen and direct introduction (beginning). Words are often spoken as direct introduction is being made. As in all teaching transmissions (these paths are considered interdependant of each other in as much as they eminate from " ") there is a proper way to begin, continue, and complete them, all of which, are, of course, unique unto each teacher/student's living relationship. btw. It is wonderful that you are so passionate about all this. shin on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/8#post-24460 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:23:37 +0000 shin 24460@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ [quote] If students were instructed, prior to maturation, that achievement were non relevant, this could, understandably, be mistaken for “nothing to achieve”, and no beginning would occur. The consequences of which are also likened to lying about as adults, wallowing in our own feces, and crying out to be fed. [/quote] The "Two Truths Theory" of Chinese Buddhism addresses this in the most excellent and simple way. Alas, despite numerous references in my posts I have never been able to arouse any interest in it. fin on "Would you call this love?" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1202#post-24459 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:06:35 +0000 fin 24459@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Thanks AP, hope you're well brother. Yes, well said, "Illusion" and "absolute nature" are both thoughts and as real or unreal as we believe the thoughts were. So to the "VERSUS" part. IMO. Same with, Love, or anything, or any practise. Even de-tatchment. It's only relevant to the thoughts about them, and anything said could "create a new set of principals to hold on to and place value in" as you very well say. Bubbles of thought, lol. Still, we're all aware of the thoughts and absence of thought and and aware we're aware, and that awareness is undying, even if it seems to flicker on and off. I dont know, AP, where's the "Love" - here, there, inwards, outwards, from detatched 'you' to 'me' and 'other living being' ? If we really believe that is so we really believe what we think about ourselves in relation to everything else. Our thoughts and feelings on ourselves, our-bodies, become the centrepiece. Yes, I'd agree with you, when we don't take what we think and feel about ourselves and others and the world seriously, when they are absent or not the centrepiece, "goodwill" or "abundance" for everything, all living beings, does seem to spontaneously appear. Anyway, its late, here brother, the brain is porridge. Dont know if that made any sense whatsoever, lol. best wishes : ) Star on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/7#post-24458 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:15:02 +0000 Star 24458@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ p.s. you are a newcomer to this forum, but i can assure you, that most posting here, came here from another spiritual forum, and those of us that did, have been over, under, through, around...and every other way that can be achieved regarding the conceptual discourses...many times...some are still stuck in the teachings, regardless of their experiences...i'm not... some of the conceptual wars are still going on...but i don't participate in much of it anymore...i have grown very tired of conceptual dualing...but if it is brought up on this thread, i am very quick to address it...as today i can see through it, to the truth...and this thread is about experiencing one's true nature, and abiding there...in this life, as a human being... thank you for your contributions...always, star... Star on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/7#post-24457 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:35:43 +0000 Star 24457@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ gankyil, you are speaking about someone who does not have clarity of awareness to recognize their own true nature...only they can know that for sure...in that case, there are many secondary teachings...which i have previously stated in this thread, are not Dzogchen Atiyoga...the tantra's are one of many... Dzogchen Atiyoga applies only to those that are able to recognize their true condition...and is a path in and of itself, characterized by Garab Dorje's three statements...which i have also stressed throughout this thread... i am only sharing my journey and understanding of the practice, and am in no way trying to teach the secondary teachings...i have no desire to do that...and a very limited knowledge of them in fact...as my secondary vehicle was christianity, especially gnostic christianity, and then Wei Wu Wei, and physics...the steps of recovery...and interaction on spiritual forums...and living life on life's terms... however; once i was able to recognize my own true nature, i was instructed by Norbu in his various books, to use this very human vehicle to awaken...to overcome karmic vision and conditioned awareness as it is presented in my very experience of living life...in the now... many on this forum have already experienced their own true nature...but as you well know, experiencing it, and living in it, are two very different things... several of us go back for several years...i have just really been sharing my journey with them...and my understanding of it...i am not trying to teach them anything really...just sharing...in fact, they teach me when they post and challenge my awareness... so, in the sense of starting where they are...it would not have been helpful at all for me to come here after all we have been through together on this forum and a previous one and try and tell them concerning their experience... all i have tried to do is share how i have practiced to remain in my own true nature...and what has occurred along the way...while living my life... and since i am not privey to any secret teachings, as i am not a member of the dzogchen communities, i have not put anything on this thread that cannot be bought in books online at amazon or read on links from google...except maybe my own experiences, which so far are not metaphysical, mystic, or any more magical than the magic of the real...lol...so no need to alert the dzogchen police...LOL i stated early on in this thread that i am not a typical dzogchen practicioner...although i do use the three statements by Garab Dorje', and i do have many books by Norbu, and a few by teachers from the Bon tradition...i am in no way your typical practicioner...even Norbu himself says that Dzogchen cannot be put in a Buddhist or Bon cage...it is the primordial state, and is not limited to any teaching... i have mostly found my own way...other's have been mirrors of awareness...but in the end...the only guru or teacher there ever really is...is the one within your own awareness... may you be well...always, star... gankyil on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24456 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:55:03 +0000 gankyil 24456@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Selfseeker, Terrific thread and posts by all. "The light of the body is the eye; if, therefore, thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light" (Matthew 6.22) This particular quote is magnificent. I was not familiar with it before, thank you. It offers very direct instruction to experiencing ourselves as light. Nothing metaphoric about it, very lean, succinct, and circular. Cross referencing teachings of diverse ideologies has always made me smile, I appreciate the richness pluralism can offer. ;) gankyil on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/7#post-24455 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:07:28 +0000 gankyil 24455@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ ^ This is correct. The unconditioned condition of conscious awareness is spotless. The Mother Tantra translates conscious awareness as inseparable, and characterizes this as clear, spotless, open, unchanged, etc. It deals with everything “up to” (denoting action, e.g.: “walk up to the wall”), beyond this point instruction is unnecessary. In the teaching “striving” is implied purposely, for the sake of instruction, to denote the bench marks of progress. This progress is often likened to the progress of human agility from infancy through maturity. If students were instructed, prior to maturation, that achievement were non relevant, this could, understandably, be mistaken for “nothing to achieve”, and no beginning would occur. The consequences of which are also likened to lying about as adults, wallowing in our own feces, and crying out to be fed. It is understood that everything can be reduced to a non objective action of self (illusory). To start there, given the human condition (samsaric), would be of little use to many. Words are employed, and subject:object descriptions have proven useful to allow discussion, the mind to rest upon them, and/or point to the object less condition of awareness. Star on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/7#post-24454 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:08:41 +0000 Star 24454@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ excellent post...i agree completely...i would only add, that the striving is also seen or realized, as illusion itself...and therefore, achievement is nonrelevant...conditioned awareness, or sems, is what actually strives and achieves...and since sems is actually effugent and essence rigpa...which is all there is, then that which is not, is only illusory... gankyil on "Dzogchen...The Self-Perfected Way..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1089/page/7#post-24453 Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:47:11 +0000 gankyil 24453@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Attaining Enlightenment, or if you prefer, Total Realization, is an achievement. Why is the word achievement used? It is used because we are acting upon ourselves, our condition, and by doing so enlightenment/total realization shines through. If there is nothing to achieve, then why strive? If, by striving, we discover primordial awareness shining through then we can compare dual and non-dual conditions, at which point abiding takes place in both conditions. If in comparing we discover primordial awareness is our constant condition, it becomes clear that duality is inconstant. In discovering our constant condition, abiding thus becomes identifiable. Abiding thus, dualism has no ground; cause and effect can not take root. Continuously abiding thus (in all activity: awake and asleep) is effortless striving; the base, path, and fruit of Dzogchen. This is not to say that activity ceases, but we are freed gradually from previous conditioning, and freed spontaneously from further conditioning. Garab Dorje directs: “… One continues right up to Total Enlightenment/Realization”. This can be considered the spotless, unconditioned condition of conscious awareness; the son’s light and the mother’s light enveloped; the enlightenment/realization that “these lights” were never “these”, but one; the "up to" point beyond which is beyond words. Ekanta on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24452 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:42:01 +0000 Ekanta 24452@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ YAS! You have a nice conception of trinity! "the Deity exists as the Trinity...now and forever" Of course... If the one didnt exist the many fold wouldnt appear... If the one wasnt conscious the one wouldnt create the many fold either... If the one didnt like to create it wouldnt appear either... There's the trinity now and forever. And no one can say that this is an attribut of the one, since if it didnt have the attribute of existence (lol) it wouldnt exist to begin with. You said: "Next to the Incarnation, I believe the trinity to be the most important item of Christian theology" We are all incarnations, as Jesus was... Nothing special with Jesus, nothing special with avatars etc etc. The special belongs to maya, the truth belongs to us all. Thats the single eye (now and forever). YetAnotherSeeker on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24451 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:53:27 +0000 YetAnotherSeeker 24451@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Ekanta, your question about "dual before all ages or one before all ages?" My opinion is that the "before all ages" part is an attempt to put a non-linear, eternal concept into language that can more easily be understood by the linear, time-bound mind. I think that the existence of the Trinity is not a matter of duality (or in this case "Triunity") vs unity. According to this theology, the Deity exists as the Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit, always, now and forever. Although this belief is not seen in the Old Testament, it is believed by some to have entered the New Testament through the Greek mystery schools, descended from the Sumerian trinity, ancient Sumerian trinity: Anu was the primary god of heaven, the "Father", and the "King of the Gods"; Enlil, the "wind-god" was the god of the earth, and a creator god; and Enki was the god of waters and the "lord of wisdom". I think some of the early Christian theologians may have seen this through the "Spiritual Eye" or the "Eye of Wisdom". Next to the Incarnation, I believe the trinity to be the most important item of Christian theology. Ekanta on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24450 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:29:33 +0000 Ekanta 24450@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ YAS: I Didnt know that about Harrison, nice find! When it comes to the Nicene Creed, I think it’s better than I used to think. “born of the Father before all ages”... = dual before all ages or one before all ages? What does the single eye have to say? What I find interesting is this: We know atman is sat, chit, ananda. No one would say sat (being) is an attribute of atman, its atman itself, since it has to exist in order to... whatever... Likewise chit (awareness) is atman itself etc. So divinity itself is trinity: sat (being), chit (awareness), ananda (bliss). It’s not aspects or attributes of divinity. If we remember Shankaras rope and snake. Rope would be "atman": being, awareness, bliss Snake would be "maya": physical, mental, spiritual Thus the trinity (physical, mental, spiritual) in essence would be divinity itself. That is... you (yes you) perceived as IS would be the embodiment of trinity/divinity in every aspect. This is pretty cool and for me a new way of understanding it all. It’s great for faith, it’s great for confidence. It’s great for locating God/Guru. Suck it in and enjoy. Anyway, no more time now. (It would be very interesting to push this a bit further). gankyil on "wierd shit..." http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1204#post-24449 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 04:33:38 +0000 gankyil 24449@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Sometimes things get lost. It's all good. abstractprophet on "Would you call this love?" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1202#post-24448 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:02:22 +0000 abstractprophet 24448@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ hi yas "what goes around comes around" - someone :o) abstractprophet on "Would you call this love?" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1202#post-24447 Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:01:41 +0000 abstractprophet 24447@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Hi fin Although I agree with what you are saying I do not see the difference between "illusions" opposed to "absolute nature". After all is this not moving emphasis from point A to point B? Does this not create a new set of principals to hold on to and place value in? Before you know it you own a whole new looking glass from which to view the world. In the context of "illusion" VERSUS "absolute nature" isn't it inevitable that we experience "absolute nature" AS "illusion" no matter were we are positioned conciously? To bring it back to topic do you feel that the removal of all emphasis, where one simply watches and experiences the bubbles and the clouds as they pass without attachment, is what allows our heart to open up lovingly and live compassionately without any form of judgement whatsoever? Love & Life... :o) fin on "Would you call this love?" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1202#post-24446 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:05:34 +0000 fin 24446@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Hi all, hope we're all well : ) Dan, Hi brother. As an extension to what AP is saying. The "illusions", all that we see, all that we witness, what you or anyone thinks or feels, all our experiences, all personal stuff, all the so-called problems of the world, all that isn't the real you, so don't get involved and tied into all that. All that are bubbles that come and go, with or without your involvement. All that isn't your absolute nature. That's not You brother. blessings : ) YetAnotherSeeker on "Would you call this love?" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1202#post-24445 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:55:46 +0000 YetAnotherSeeker 24445@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ "And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." McCartney YetAnotherSeeker on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24444 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:47:20 +0000 YetAnotherSeeker 24444@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Hi, ss and abs! Eckanta, the quote you use from Master Eckhart, "The Father is a revelation of the Godhead, the Son is an image and countenance of the Father, and the Holy Ghost is an effulgence of that countenance, and a mutual love between Them, and these properties They have always possessed in Themselves." This pretty much reflects my understanding of the traditional Christian theology of the Trinity, as expressed through the Nicene Creed. Of course, the Creed assumes the incarnation of the Son as Jesus Christ, which is another discussion. The creed, originally written in Latin, can be translated as follows: Latin: "Credo in unum Deum Patrem omnipotentem..." English: "I believe in one God, the Almighty Father..." Latin: "Et in...Filium Dei unigenitum, sed ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula..." English: "And in...the Son of God, only-begotten; but born of the Father before all ages..." Latin: "Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem, qui ex Patre Filioque procedit; qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur et conglorificatur..." English: And in the Holy Spirit, Lord and life-giver, who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who, with the Father and the Son, will be adored and glorified..." In some esoteric Christian traditions, where patriarchy is not as strong a tradition, the Holy Spirit manifests some feminine properties. YetAnotherSeeker on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24443 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:24:44 +0000 YetAnotherSeeker 24443@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Hi, Eckanta "Gurur-Brahma, Gurur-Vishnuh, Gurur-devo Maheswarah [shiva]. Gurussaakshaath Parabrahma Thasmai Shri Gurave namah." I first heard these names back in 1970, on George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord". The song was highly intellectual and spiritual for a pop song, and you rarely see that kind of combination: I see a story in the background singers. They start out singing "Hallelujah" behind the lyrics, as sort of a mantra. As the song goes on, the main chorus and verse are repeated, but the background changes to the Maha Mantra, "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare. Then, at the end of the song, the background singers sing the names mentioned earlier, "Gurur-Brahma, Gurur-Vishnuh,Gurur-devo, Maheswarah,Gurussaakshaath, Parabrahma, Thasmai Shri, Gurave namah". I think this sort of reflects Mr. Harrison's evolution from his traditional Christian upbringing to his knowledge and understanding of eastern thought as he was exposed to it through the Maharishi. abstractprophet on "The Trinity & the Spiritual Eye" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1203#post-24442 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:46:28 +0000 abstractprophet 24442@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ "The Magic Number" - De La Soul Pos: 3 That's the magic number Yes it is It's the magic number Somewhere in this hip-hop soul community Was born 3 mase, dove and me And that's the magic number (what does it all mean? ) Difficult preaching is posdnuos' pleasure Pleasure and preaching starts in the heart Something that stimulates the music in my measure Measure in my music, raised in three parts Casually see but don't do like the soul 'cause seein' and doin' are actions for monkeys Doin' hip hop hustle, no rock and roll Unless your name's brewster, 'cause brewster's a punky Parents let go 'cause there's magic in the air Criticising rap shows you're out of order Stop look and listen to the phrasin' fred astaires And don't get offended while mase do-se-do's your daughter A tri-camera rolls since our music's now set Fly rhymes are stored on a d.a.i.s.y. production It stands for "da inner sound y'all" and y'all can bet That the action's not a trick, but showing the function Everybody wants to be a deejay Everybody wants to be an emcee But being speakers are the best And you don't have to guess De la soul posse consists of three And that's the magic number Dove: This here piece of the pie Is not dessert but the course that we dine And three out of every darn time The effect is "mmmm" when a daisy grows in your mind Showing true position, this here piece is Kissin' the part of the pie that's missin' When that negative number fills up the casualty Maybe you can subtract it You can call it your lucky partner Maybe you can call it your adjective But odd as it may be Without my 1 and 2 where would there be My 3 Mase pos and me And that's the magic number Focus is formed by flaunts to the soul Souls who flaunt styles gain praises by pounds Common are speakers who are never scrolls Scrolls written daily creates a new sound Listeners listen 'cause this here is wisdom Wisdom of a speaker, a dove and a plug Set aside a legal substance to feed 'em For now get 'em high off this dialect drug Time is a factor so it's time to count Count not the negative actions of one Speakers of soul say it's time to shout Three forms the soul to a positive sum Dance to this fix and flex every muscle Space can be filled if you rise like my lumber Advance to the tune but don't do the hustle Shake, rattle, roll to my magic number Now you may try to subtract it But it just won't go away Three times one? (what is it? ) (one, two, three!) And that's the magic number (yo, what's up? ) (1, 2, 3) (I say, children, what does it all mean? ) (woah-woah-wo, 1, 2, 3) (I wouldn't lie to you) (no more no less, that's the magic number) (no more no less) (what it is? ) (no more no less) (is this the future? ) (no more no less) (do the shang-a-lang) (no more no less) (no one on the subway ever chats to me) (no more no less) (anybody in the audience ever get hit by a car? ) (no more no less) (how high's the water, mama? ) (no more no less) (how high's the water, mama? ) (no more no less) (three feet high and rising) (no more no less) (three) (that's the magic number) ****** hi seeker. :o) abstractprophet on "Would you call this love?" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1202#post-24441 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:42:02 +0000 abstractprophet 24441@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ brodan, brother you still need to move beyond this idea that you are more this or that than others. it permeates most of what you write. sorry. just drop it all and let go of the idea of yourself as this and that and doors will start to open for you. maybe then you will be more in balance with that which you can see that you already are. 1love... :o) abstractprophet on "A Time for Faith!" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1197#post-24440 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:36:29 +0000 abstractprophet 24440@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ hi no1 i have watched part of zeitgist. interesting viewing. what does one make of having their attention drawn to such matters from a variety of angles? does one dismiss it as something to draw their attention away from ( ) or does one see it as ( ) drawing their attention to something that needs viewing? i suspect that one should neither deny or rely on such matters while remaining aware of what is *happening* as it happens. LOL ites... :o) abstractprophet on "A Time for Faith!" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1197#post-24439 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:27:17 +0000 abstractprophet 24439@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ hey gates... it is what it is. although things certainly seem to be getting more interesting at the moment. or perhaps i am just getting more interested. lol i have been amused most recently by the election of barrack obama to the role of us president. with out taking anything away from the significants this has for the consciousness of the world and the perception of african americans i am not convinced of obama as the messiah. i would even go as far as saying that (for i) in this moment his role is more frightening that george w's in the sense that at least with george you knew what you were getting. i found it most interesting that obama straight after being elected saddled straight up to members of the eu (what exactly was he doing in berlin recently exactly?) and distanced himself from iran who seemingly offered an olive branch. surely the messiah would display much more of a peaceful approach to these matters and would not be alligning themself with the eu who until only recently had outlawed fresh produce that did not conform to certain aestetic standards. another thing that scares me is the strongly nationalistic rhetoric that seems to be sprouting from his mouth after being elected. history tells us that populists who hold these views are dangerous.... who knows though perhaps i am wrong and he is the woolen haired king spoken of in the book of daniel. just as possible is that this is not end time. anyways,, ray,,, always a pleasure. btw didn't get a chance to fully read the scripture you posted the other day as time got the better of me. bless... :o)