http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Collection of Thoughts Forum: Spiritual Discussions en Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:47:58 +0000 http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1281#post-25884 Thu, 01 Jan 2009 19:58:33 +0000 Star 25884@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>when we come into our own being...we must allow that compassion to overflow...into all of being itself...</p> <p>if we find a treasure...we must not hide that treasure and keep it to ourselves...we must multiply that treasure by sharing it with all of humanity...</p> <p>love is a battlefield...life is a struggle towards compassion...and compassion must stand strong in the face of all that tries to renounce it or diminish...compassion must not look away from that which is ugly or seemingly impossible...compassion must forge the battlefield with compassion...* </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1281#post-25879 Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:42:03 +0000 Starss 25879@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>History contains some ugly stuff. I agree. And a ton of murder has been committed in<br /> the name of God...as well. What I was trying to point out, is that each individual<br /> must find love within themselves in order to act in a loving manner. And that, my<br /> Star who is learning to love herself into a fuller love, love is that feeling inside<br /> us that makes us want to reach toward the good.<br /> Not all history is ugly...My theory is to focus on the good and the ugly, which gets<br /> no attention, falls away because it is not enhanced... This is not a battle of good<br /> and evil...there is no battle...it's a choice of believing what you want to believe<br /> and focusing your energy where it is most wanted. Focus on evil and it inflates. Focus<br /> on good and you'll find more good...Happy New Year Star...you have a good and loving nature. You don't have to do battle...just be...breathe and just be the loving creative<br /> beautiful person you already are... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1281#post-25829 Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:17:32 +0000 Star 25829@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>the ten commandments were needed for the Israelites for they were committing all kinds of barbaric and ignorant actions...they were animals...acting out their reptilian brain and mammalian brain is the only thing i can see...they did not have a home, land of their own...and so they killed and stole and justified their actions by creating this god...no wonder they needed god and religion...they were murderers...and thieves...read the old testament of their actual history...don't take my word for it.</p> <p>these are the facts...but hey...this was needed for the evolution of consciousness to continue...thus...ignorance is wisdom...may we evolve into our own compassionate humanity...learning through histories ignorant mistakes and applying wisdom in our lives and those lives around us* </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1281#post-25828 Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:11:51 +0000 Star 25828@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>god waits? yes god waits...allowing little african children to die every day from no food and lack of clean water...how cruel this god is...</p> <p>i say what i see...the reality of what is...there is no compassionate god that waits...there are only uncompassionate humans that wait...those humans that have not yet awakened to their own compassionate humanity...it is our responsibility to help them see that they are compassion...by showing compassion...in every instance we can...sometimes that compassion may seem to be hateful to someones ego...but never should it ever be hateful to a starving child...* </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1281#post-25826 Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:06:14 +0000 Star 25826@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>if god is love...then would we say, we need to 'god' one another?</p> <p>if god is compassion...how is that compassion expressed? how can we know this? verify it? </p> <p>god is a symbol of our languaging for compassion...the expression of love(food, shelter, others needs met) and light(awareness of this...wisdom) and life (all living being). </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1281#post-25825 Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:54:20 +0000 Star 25825@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>how do you KNOW that god does not require anything of us? did god tell you that? how do you know that there is a separate god? what is the basis for your belief in this?</p> <p>here is my basis for what i said...my 'idea' of god is not separate from the reality of a compassionate humanity...i equate them both as being the same...not separate...a compassionate humanity would be the ultimate expression of LOVE...how do i know this? i have seen in reality what compassion can do for the sick and hungry and suffering...i have experienced the gift of compassion myself when i have been sick and hungry and suffering...and if there is a god...that is it...and it is lived through human form and humanity...every day i see the beauty and goodness and courage of the human being...that is the only god i know...and can prove by reality to exist...and this god is in everything that lives...the very breath of life...and so that is the reality of my 'idea' of god...course i could just drop the god...cause god is reality...the absolute is the relative...all of being dances divine...spirit of the universe...mother earth...so really, i don't have any 'idea' of god...god is that reality within and without...space/time/knowledge...that i choose to call...Being...* </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1281#post-25823 Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:48:32 +0000 Starss 25823@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Actually Star, God does not require anything of us... It is us who<br /> decide what we want to believe, do, say, act about anything. God does<br /> not write the rules for our existence....we do.. Or better yet, those<br /> who think they know write the rules for human existence which they<br /> feel will apply.<br /> For instance, were the Ten Commandments written by God, there would<br /> be no war, no slaughterhouses, the eating of animals, or killing of people,<br /> nor would there be arguments about whose religion was right or wrong.<br /> What happens in a human being is that there comes a time when the human<br /> decides to create his/her own set of ethics or rules to abide by...and<br /> personal reasons to abide by that set of rules. And in so doing this, the<br /> human graduates to the next grade, the next higher level of function.<br /> In my spare time I love to paint. I feel like a grade school kid smearing<br /> color and mixing colors. When I first began I didn't know much, so I copied<br /> ideas from other people. As I learned more about what I liked and color mixing<br /> and got ideas for paintings from within myself, I did less copying and more<br /> of my own ideas. Religion and belief systems pretty much follow the same<br /> pathway...you take what you are told until you can develop your own patterns.<br /> This seems to be the nature of human development...so God, Creator must understand<br /> the plot and know all things about humanity. Therefore at each point of a human's<br /> growth, God waits because God knows all the who's, what's, why's of your becoming.<br /> You cannot fail a God who knows your very tomorrows better than you do. Since<br /> God's realm is past, present, future, there are no unknowns and yet you are loved<br /> anyway. God loved you into being...<br /> Your sentence above would have made perfect sense had you begun...We need to love<br /> one another... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1279#post-25657 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:05:29 +0000 Ekanta 25657@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>He's like everywhere, google him and have a look. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1282#post-25656 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:00:57 +0000 David 25656@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>The human form of God is a personal one (Gita) most of the time people are unaware of such personality and look at God as someone outside or separate to themselves, not looking within, realise he/she/it is and will always remain with you for the entire lifespan of every living entity, we have infinite chances to understand this, all you have to do is remember who the creator is and remain firm in conviction of your place in time and space.... knowledge freely accepts you </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1282#post-25655 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:50:21 +0000 David 25655@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>'What is the reason of doubts?'</p> <p>This is just but a question</p> <p>to look for an answer would be the sin for there is no reason to doubt, </p> <p>I doubt the question has no answer but since it has been placed up front and center in this mind the seeds of doubt are sown... </p> <p>its the question that drives us forward, to seek an answer brings more questions, you cant have one without the other.........</p> <p>question - answer<br /> answer - question</p> <p>The middle path of doubt is accepting that to doubt is to question without looking for an answer, that way only the awareness of doubt present in the mind is known and can be transmuted</p> <p>If you understand this... great<br /> If you dont, dont worry about it </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1275#post-25653 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:11:37 +0000 GrimNexus 25653@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>you know,<br /> it should be impossible to even know that god exists, if what you say was really complete.<br /> and btw, it is impossible for you to even know that god exists.<br /> Good thing that you--or anything for that matter--is not really as it appears to be.</p> <p>If you think that you can know that God even exists, then you have not accepted that God is UNIMAGINABLE. ie. You have not accepted what finite really means.</p> <p>---<br /> look you said:<br /> "The only information about the absolute God is that God exists. “Aum Tat Sat” means that God exists and no more information about God is available. The word Tat means that God is beyond your imagination. The word Aum denotes that God is the creator, ruler and destroyer of this world. These three adjectives indicate the works (Creation, rule and destruction) of God only and not the nature of the God. This is called as the information about the existence only (Sanmatra vada)."</p> <p>If you proclaim that this is the case, and only the works of God can be known, and not the nature of the God, that is actually a contradiction. If you can know the works of God--in any degree--then the very barrier that seperates the works of God and the nature of the God, can actually be known then.<br /> If the very barrier that seperates God's works and the nature of the God can be known--ie. if you even know there is a barrier, which you said there is--then learning everything about the barrier, will reveal the nature of God when the barrier is dropped.<br /> You will be able to drop the barrier, because you know everything that the nature of God is not; therefore, upon knowing the exact barrier, how can it be impossible to get around, when you already know the whole barrier?<br /> ie. When you know the whole barrier, then there is no longer a need to even try to go around it, you already know the way.</p> <p>---<br /> This of course, is all based on the claim that you made, where you said that we can actually know "God's works".<br /> Are you saying for certain, that we can know God's works? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1282#post-25652 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:58:13 +0000 GrimNexus 25652@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>lol</p> <p>star, you do understand that dattaswami has consistency in his hate speech.</p> <p>If these guys really believe that the above Q&#38;A is true, this theme runs all throughout everything that this guy posts. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1278#post-25651 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:54:57 +0000 GrimNexus 25651@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>then the "awareness" you are talking about, is most assuredly not the "awareness" they are speaking about in those traditions, buddhism, or zen for example.</p> <p>Dattaswami,<br /> if you disagree,<br /> please clarify exactly what you think is meant by: "Awareness" </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1279#post-25650 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:51:07 +0000 GrimNexus 25650@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>ekanta, dont you remember dattaswami?<br /> he's been here before. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1279#post-25647 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:13:16 +0000 Star 25647@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>lol... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1280#post-25646 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:01:42 +0000 Mary 25646@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>"But I always think that the best way to know God is to love many things" ~Vincent van Gogh </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1279#post-25645 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:18:29 +0000 Ekanta 25645@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>datta... it appears like you have just been stared... next you will be grimmed and then u will soften up a bit. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1279#post-25642 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:38:40 +0000 Star 25642@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>god is compassion...compassion is pure being...dancing in form...may we become aware of god within our very being...and dance into a compassionate humanity...* </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1280#post-25641 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:36:16 +0000 Star 25641@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>god is love, compassion, beauty, thanksgiving, goodness, joy, peace, bliss...god need not be left outside of the human realm...for god is within each of his children and all of creation...we need not be concerned that god is unimaginable or unreachable...god is our own innermost being...and can be known by the simpliest gestures of compassion...god is divinity within human compassion itself...* </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1281#post-25640 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:32:02 +0000 Star 25640@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>god needs us to love one another...here on earth...that would be an ultimate expression of god...a compassionate humanity...caring for each other and the earth our home...* </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1282#post-25639 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:30:04 +0000 Star 25639@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>so god has to come and whisper in my ear like he did in abrahams ear? and where has that gotten humanity today but on the battlefields...??????? god speaks to me through humanity...and this entire creation...and says everyday that compassion is not being lived as a reality...only preached in ideas...how sad...* </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1283#post-25638 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:26:23 +0000 Star 25638@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>how does this knowledge help us to live our lives in a healthy, compassionate way? i mean, if all it takes is knowing this, why is the world still full of suffering? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1283#post-25637 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:03:28 +0000 dattaswami 25637@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>God and energy</p> <p>God is the absolute truth. Energy is the absolute truth in the field of relativity. Energy is also a relative truth but being the final truth in the ladder of relativity, it is also called as absolute truth within the sphere of relativity or creation. The word ‘Sat’, which means the absolute truth, can be used for both God and Energy but, the difference is to be realized. In the presence of God, Energy can never be absolute truth. But, when God is not referred, Energy happens to be the absolute truth within the boundaries of the creation. The second Chapter of the Gita deals with the Soul, which is only Energy. In this chapter, God is not referred at all. Hence, in this context, the Energy is mentioned as the absolute truth. With reference to Energy, a form of an object is a relative truth only. Hence, Lord says that a non-existent thing like form (Asat) is always non-existent (Naasato Vidyate Bhavah…). </p> <p>The Energy is the existing basis of the creation and hence, exists always (Nabhavo Vidyate Satah…). But, Scholars, who have realized God, treat both these Energy and form as relative things only with reference to God and therefore, both are non-existent with reference to God. Both these constitute Cause and Effect parts in the creation. Both these (Creation) have beginning since they were created by God. If God wishes both these disappear and will have end (Ubhayorapi Drushtontah…). Some Scholars have taken the meaning of ‘Sat’ here as God and faced the danger of ending to God also. To avoid this danger, they tried to change the meaning of the word ‘end’. The Veda also says that ‘Sat’ was generated (Sadajayata…). The Veda says that God, indicated by the word ‘non-existent’ (Asat) existed before the generation of Energy (Sat). Here, the word ‘non-existent’ (God) means that God is not Energy or Existent. People, who need the proof of existence grasped by means like senses, mind and intelligence, think that Energy is God. Though Energy is not grasped by senses like eyes, Energy is visualized with powerful microscopes. Therefore, Scientists treat Energy as the ultimate God creating, maintaining and destroying the Universe. Even matter is a form of Energy (Primordial Energy). The matter and the form or shape constitutes the body. With reference to matter, the form of the body is relative. Thus, within the limits of the body, matter is absolute truth and form is relative truth. But, both these (body) are relative with reference to the basic energy (soul). The second chapter of the Gita deals with the soul and body. The Gita clearly says that soul is eternal (absolute truth) with reference to the body only (Na hanyate hanyamane shareere…). The Advaita Philosophers are not at all different from Scientists because the soul treated as God by them is nothing but Energy. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1282#post-25634 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:55:25 +0000 dattaswami 25634@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>What is the reason of doubts?</p> <p>Ans) Lack of direct divine knowledge from God in human form (Satguru) is the reason for all spiritual doubts. Every soul will get one chance to meet the human form of God in their life cycles. If the soul misses that single golden chance, it is a loss forever. The knowledge given by the human preachers may be either correct and incomplete or wrong and complete. By such knowledge either you will not reach the goal even though you are in the right path or you will proceed in the opposite direction and become more and more far from God.</p> <p>At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami</p> <p>Anil Antony</p> <p><a href="http://www.universal-spirituality.org" rel="nofollow">www.universal-spirituality.org</a><br /> Universal Spirituality for World Peace </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1281#post-25633 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:54:18 +0000 dattaswami 25633@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Why Lord need our Love?</p> <p> Why does a perfect, complete being (God) need or depend upon devotion from something or someone else? (A question posted by a person in one of the discussion forums)</p> <p>Ans) God is not in need of love from others because He is always contented (Aptakamasya….Veda). The king goes to the forest for hunting not for killing an animal and to eat it like a hunter (Lokavattu…..Brahma Sutra). It is a game of entertainment with His own imagination (creation). You cannot take the example of king also here in complete sense because the king, forest, animal, hunting etc., are equally real. The love is the best and most sacred type of entertainment. </p> <p>At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami</p> <p>Anil Antony</p> <p><a href="http://www.universal-spirituality.org" rel="nofollow">www.universal-spirituality.org</a><br /> Universal Spirituality for World Peace </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1280#post-25630 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:37:52 +0000 dattaswami 25630@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>God is Unimaginable<br /> O Learned and Devoted Servants of God,<br /> The soul is imaginable item. It is a part of creation and creation is imaginable. The soul taken as basic inert energy can be seen by eyes with the help of powerful scientific instruments. The soul taken in the form of special work or transportation of information by special neuron cells can also be visualized. Thus, the soul taken in any form is visualized and hence, it cannot be the unimaginable God. The Veda (Drushyatetvagraya…) and the Gita (Pashyanti Jnanachakshushah…) clearly say that the soul can be visualized by Scholars or Scientists. God is beyond space and hence, can never be imagined even by intelligence (logic), which is highest faculty of Knowledge.</p> <p> The human imagination can never go beyond space. Since God is the generator of space, God exists beyond space and can never be imagined. The miracles are the unimaginable incidents that indicate the unimaginable God. As long as an incident can be explained by scientific logic, nobody takes the name of God. The hot Sun light indicates the hot Sun. The cool moon light indicates the cool moon. Similarly, the unimaginable incident indicates the unimaginable God. The only available information about the nature of God is that God is unimaginable. Thus, when a person experiences the unimaginable miracle in the life, such experience can be treated as the experience of God. Unimaginable does not mean inexperienciable.</p> <p>The faith in God becomes strongest and deepest after the experience of such unimaginable nature of God. Thick skinned people need intensive miracles. There are some people, who do not have skin at all and can never experience God like a stone. Such souls take the birth of inert objects and may serve the devotees for a possible change. A stone may serve a devotee standing on the wall of his house. Such service may bring change and may give a human birth again. God never condemns any soul forever. The father always tries throughout his life to change his child. The sensitive skin of a Scholar experiences God even through a light miracle. Scholars experience God through unimaginable parts of the already existing creation like seeing the unimaginable boundary of the Universe.</p> <p> Such greatest Scholar does not need any other miracle. The importance of Cosmic Vision exhibited by the Lord is only indicating the existence of such unimaginable boundary of the creation (Nantosti mama divyanaam—Gita). Thus, for a real Scholar there is no need of a time bound miracle to take place. A human being always investigates the miracle to find out even a trace of possibility to interpret it through logic. The reasons for this are his ignorance about God and deep knowledge about creation. A devotee is quite reverse. He has deep knowledge about God and ignorance about the creation. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1279#post-25629 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:37:22 +0000 dattaswami 25629@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Awareness is not God</p> <p>Soul is the nervous energy or the inert energy functioning in a special style with the help of nervous system. This special style is Knowledge or Awareness. The special work form of the Inert Energy, which is generated by oxidation of food, is Knowledge. The Energy is converted into work and therefore, Knowledge (transportation of information to the brain) is a special form of inert energy only. If you take the soul as the working element, it is a basic inert energy. </p> <p>If you take the soul as Knowledge, it is the special work form of inert energy. The difference between the basic inert energy and its special work form is the difference between inert and awareness. Since awareness is also a work form of inert energy, there is no basic difference between inert and awareness. Hence, even the soul taken as awareness is also inert since it is under the full control of God. If you take the characteristic of inert as the lack of independence, there is no basic difference between inert (Apara) and awareness (Para). Based on this point, the Gita combined inert and awareness under one category called as nature or creation (Prakriti). The Veda says that God controls the souls (Atmeshwaram…). The classification of inert and awareness is superficial and is a sub-division of inert nature. In certain occasions, awareness controls inert objects like placing a small stone in any place by a person. But, the same stone in big size falling on the head of the same person expels the awareness from the body by force against the will of the person. Hence, the control of inert objects by awareness is partial, limited to certain conditions only. Based on this partial control, the awareness cannot be treated as full controller or God. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1278#post-25628 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:36:27 +0000 dattaswami 25628@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>We can see God through Human Incarnation</p> <p>There is no possibility of seeing the unimaginable God at anytime. How can your eye capture the God, when even your intelligence fails? But, for the devotees, who are very anxious to see God, God adopted a special technique. God enters a finite quantity of creation, which may be energetic form (Narayana or Father of heaven) or material form like human incarnation. God will never enter the entire cosmos because it is not convenient for the devotee to see and have the full satisfaction of close approach. However, even the entire cosmos can be treated as God (if a beginner-devotee is so fascinated) for worship and in such worship the cosmos stands as a representing model (Pratika) of God. This is quite different from the worship of the finite medium in which God is actually present (Saakshat-upasanam).</p> <p> Whether it is finite form of energy or finite human incarnation, the most important point is that awareness is always associated with God. This only means that whenever God enters a finite medium, awareness is always associated with it. This means that wherever God exists, awareness must exist there. This concept is twisted and misinterpreted as the present Advaita philosophy. The twist is that wherever awareness exists, God must be present there. The twist reached the climax and the final result is that awareness itself is God. God can be called as awareness but awareness cannot be called as God. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1277#post-25627 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:35:54 +0000 dattaswami 25627@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Bonds hindering the spiritual progress &#38; overcoming<br /> There are four strong bonds, which hinder the spiritual progress.<br /> 1) The bond with the wife<br /> 2) The bond with the money<br /> 3) The bond with the child<br /> 4) The bond with ones body and life.<br /> Among the three bonds the strongest bond is the bond with the children. The wife can help in the spiritual effort (Sadhana) and therefore she is called as ‘Saha Dharma Charini’. The sex, which is a biological need, is a matter of attraction of few minutes or at the maximum few hours. This little time is negligible compared to the long lifetime and the energy dedicated to the Lord. But the bond with the children persists in all the times and requires the expenditure of the energy continuously. The Bond with the money also increases due to this bond with children. For the sake of the children people become currupt and try to rob others. In such process they are doing lot of injustice. The strength of this bond is reduced by realization and with this not only the individual salvation in the upper world is achieved, but also the justice in this world can be easily established. This is the reason why the Lord spoke about the detachment of worldly bonds for the establishment of the justice. He says that He is born to establish the Justice, but He does not speak about the rules of the Justice. The Government, Police and even the courts quote the rules of Justice, which cannot establish the Justice. People are trying to misinterpret these rules and win the case. In Gita the Lord attempted for the detachment of these bonds, which are responsible for the injustice. He attacked the problem at the basic level. Therefore, the strength of the bond with the children is proportional to the injustice in the world. This bond also hinders the spiritual elevation. Unless the strongest bond is cut, salvation is impossible. Without the salvation, the single bond with the Lord is impossible. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/639#post-25568 Sun, 28 Dec 2008 04:26:47 +0000 dattaswami 25568@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Knower of Atman</p> <p>The old feelings in ‘chittam’ (storing capacity of mind) appear on the screen of the mind as a cinema. Resisting the mental activity through senses is Yoga as told by Patanjali (Chittavritii Nirodhah). If you resist seeing, hearing etc., the entry of external poison to the mind is stopped. But the poison was already precipitated in your chittam since several births. Thus the mental activity (Chitta Vritti) is both external as well as internal. This activity is called as ‘Sphota’. According to Sanskrit grammar, chittam has two meanings. One is the addition of poison from outside (Samjnanam) and other is digestion of already existing poison (Smaranam). The poison is the bundle of worldly matters. Resistance of mental activity is to be done by the soul, which can be affected by the poison. But a scholar (Jnani) does not resist this poison. He can digest the poison and so even takes it from outside. Both these activities are done by the subtle body (Sukshma Shareeram), which is made of qualities or mind. The gross body (Sthula Shareeram) is a composite of the senses, which do actions initiated by qualities.</p> <p>A ‘Jnani’ separates himself [by analysis] from these two bodies and enters the third, causal body (Karana Shareeram), which is pure awareness. He will not cross the boundaries of this third body, which is also called as Atman. Such a scholar is called Sthita Prajna. ‘Prajna’ means pure awareness. ‘Sthita’ means the person who has limited himself to pure awareness. Since he takes the decision of himself to be Atman, ‘Buddhi’ (intelligence) also becomes the pure awareness. Since he decides the meaning of ‘I’ as pure awareness, the ‘Ahankara’ [I-sense or ego] also becomes pure awareness. You must note that Prajna also means Buddhi. The remaining two internal items (Antahkaranams) are Chittam which is the C.D. or cassette of precipitated feelings and ‘Manas’ (mind) which are the internal screen.<br /> The internal T.V. show goes on and the spectator (Atman) sees and enjoys the show. His gross body is his own house, which is the cinema theatre. The whole show is the subtle body and the causal body is the spectator. The spectator has no link with the T.V. show and is only entertained. The spectator is not disturbed by the show and is only entertained. The spectator is not disturbed by the show and is called ‘Gunateeta’ by Gita (Guna Guneshu Vartante…). This T.V. show initiates the senses of the gross body, which do deeds according to the qualities of show. The Atman or spectator (I) is also separated from the gross body and so is not linked to the deeds and the qualities. The soul [Atman] is detached from qualities, deeds and their corresponding results. This does not mean that he does not receive the results of his deeds. The subtle and gross bodies did the deeds and so they enjoy the results. But this soul, which is detached from these two bodies, is a spectator of such enjoyment of the enjoyer. The soul is not the enjoyer since it is not the doer of the deeds. The wheel that constitutes the deeds and their corresponding results, (Karma Chakra) is also not affected, since it is related to the person’s subtle and gross bodies only and not to his causal body or the Atman. The subtle and gross bodies are the ‘doer’ and ‘enjoyer’, constituting a show for the entertainment of the causal body, which is just a spectator. Since the subtle body is also made of awareness, it enjoys the results through its gross body. But an ordinary human being identifies himself with the subtle body and gross body, considering them as ‘I’ and therefore becomes the doer and enjoyer. But the scholar fixes his ‘I’ to the causal body alone and de-links himself from doer-ship and enjoyer-ship.</p> <p>There are two vessels containing vibrated water. Both the vessels undergo stress due to the water vibrations. The vessel is the gross body and water-vibrations are the subtle body. An ignorant fellow identifies himself with the vessel and the water vibrations and so is vibrated [he feels that he is being vibrated] and undergoes stress. But the scholar identifies himself only with the water and not with the vibrations or the vessel. He is not vibrated and has no stress. He goes on enjoying the vibrations and the stress. Even if he does a sin, he goes to hell and enjoys the punishment there. The punishment is received by his subtle and gross bodies and he, as Atman, observes the enjoyment of the punishment and gets entertainment. Ramana Maharshi got a boil [tumor] on the body due to some deed. But he confined himself to the soul and so was not the doer of that deed. When the boil was operated upon by the doctor, He observed it and His subtle body enjoyed the pain [he was operated upon without anesthesia]. But he, as Atman was entertained in the operation. When the Gita says “Atmavantam na Karmani”, it means the Jnani enjoys the results of deeds but he is detached from such enjoyment.<br /> “Avashyamanu bhoktavyam…. Kalpakoti Shataih” means that one has to undergo the results of his deeds even after millions of births with interest. The doer can never escape the enjoyment of results. But in the case of a deserving devotee, the Lord comes down as a human incarnation and enjoys his results [undergoes suffering on behalf of the devotee]. Except this way, the doer has to enjoy his own results. But in the case of a deserving devotee, the Lord comes down as a human incarnation and enjoys his results. Except this way, the doer has to undergo the results. But in that path, the devotee should not aspire for such unjust punishment of the Lord and should resist it, if he comes to know of it. The Lord is called ‘Datta’ for this very reason, since He donates Himself for the sake of His devotee. When Datta enjoys such results, He also behaves like a Yogi. It means that He confines Himself to the soul and His subtle and gross bodies undergo the punishments. Therefore, a Yogi is just like the Lord in this aspect of spectatorship. The Lord has the power of creation of the world while the Yogi does not. But this difference is irrelevant during the aspect of spectatorship. Therefore, this ‘Advaita’ (state of oneness; monism) state of a liberated soul and the Lord, which was proposed by Shankara, is meaningful.<br /> This whole universe is the gross body of the Lord and ‘Hiranya Garbha’ is the subtle body of the Lord. Hiranya Garbha means the composite form of all the souls. Now, in the gross and subtle bodies of the Lord also, a number of reactions and changes are going on like a cinema. The ‘Maha Maya’ is the Atman or the causal body of the Lord, which is only a spectator. He confines Himself to this Atman and sees the show in His subtle and gross bodies.</p> <p>The path of Karma [worldly action or desire-motivated action] has no salvation because the soul is not detached from subtle and gross bodies (Bhunjanam Vaa—Gita). He cannot entertain himself by confining to his Atman and so he resists bad qualities and bad deeds. He is very alert about good deeds and always tries to enjoy the pleasures of heaven. But he often comes back to this world, where good and bad are mixed. He is always exposed to the risk of falling in a trap of bad qualities and sins here. He is always afraid of that and has no independence. But in the path of Jnana or knowledge, the scholar is fearless and fully independent. He is beyond both good and bad. Both give entertainment to him equally like sweet and hot items in a meal. This soul has Jnana [knowledge] of Atman, has ‘Rasa’ [love] of the entertainment and ‘Ananda’ [happiness] of the enjoyment of both good and bad equally. The Veda says that such a liberated soul is characterised by these three qualities. The Lord as Rama killed Vali and as Krishna, He enjoyed the result of that sin. But the doer and the enjoyer were only His subtle and gross bodies. They are and not the Lord, who was only confined to the Atman as a spectator. Lord Krishna could see the show at the end in which His own sons and grandsons were killed and He was entertained by the show. When Arjuna could not kill his grandfather, because he identified himself with his subtle and gross bodies, the Lord taught him ‘Jnana Yoga’ by which Arjuna confined himself to his soul and killed his grandfather and went to hell. But he was the spectator in killing and also while enjoying the sin in hell.<br /> Jains [followers of Mahavir Jain] say that Krishna also went to hell, since He was responsible for such a cruel war. Even if that were correct, the Lord would have enjoyed hell as a spectator! Therefore, such a remark on the Lord does not affect Him at all. Shankara taught about the Atman, which is the causal body in the view of ordinary human beings. </p> <p>When His own case comes, God exists in Him beyond even the Atman and so God is called as the Maha Karana or the Cause of the causal body. When He said that He is Shiva, this word Shiva refers to God and He confined Himself only to God, just like the Yogi confines himself to Atman. The word Shiva means auspicious and so can refer to the Atman in the case of the Yogi. The Veda says “Ubhe Punya Pape Vidhuya….”, which means that the Yogi transcends both good and bad and becomes equal to God. The Gita also says the same “Ubhe Sukruta Dushkrute”. </p>