http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Collection of Thoughts Tag: consciousness en Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:43:08 +0000 http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218/page/2#post-25022 Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:21:36 +0000 Star 25022@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>awesome insight...made me lol...thnx... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218/page/2#post-25020 Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:18:22 +0000 YetAnotherSeeker 25020@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>"i'm just trying to jarr conditioned beliefs a bit."</p> <p>Funny...When I first read this I read "conditional"...</p> <p>Perhaps those who are fluid in their beliefs, those who are open to learn new things about those things that they believe, could describe their beliefs conditional.</p> <p>Those who are conditioned in their beliefs would then tend to be rigid and unbending, and not willing to change with new information. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24816 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:15:31 +0000 YetAnotherSeeker 24816@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>What I like about Sobottka's Course in Consciousness, is that it pretty much ties the concept of consciousness with quantum physics. I almost entitled this thread "The Buddha and Schroedinger's Cat." </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24811 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:52:49 +0000 Star 24811@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>dear fin, there is such a sweetness about you...and even though we might not agree, i appreciate your questions that actually inspired me in the first place to begin the evolution of consciousness thread, and your attention to reading them and further comments...</p> <p>be well, always, star... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24810 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:43:08 +0000 fin 24810@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>star, yep, you never know. blessings &#38; take care : ) </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24809 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:30:34 +0000 Star 24809@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>every one counts...every one is important...every one is part of the whole of this existence...</p> <p>the garbage man may seem to have a trivial job...he is not paid as well as, say a basketball star...who has the most important job?</p> <p>it can also be thought of as a dominoe effect...you do what you are inspired to do...with an honest mind, and open heart...and you never know how the thread of awareness will continue to weave its tapestry...</p> <p>be well...star...</p> <p>p.s. some people sleep so deep, that you have to pour ice cold water on their head...it is not that the one that is pouring the ice cold water does not have concern for the one freaking out b/c there is ice cold water being poured on their head...</p> <p>on the contrary...at one time and another...others have had to pour ice cold water upon their heads too...and jarr them out of their dream state...</p> <p>ice cold water is compassionate...whether it feels like it, or not...</p> <p>in the end however; the one having the ice cold water poured on their heads...has to actually do the waking up...i'm just trying to jarr conditioned beliefs a bit...to provide an opening...always, star...</p> <p>hehe...this is where i enjoy still being able to use the 'decietful' part of the reptillian brain for what i see to be...a good cause...lol </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24808 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:16:59 +0000 fin 24808@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Star, ... so many things that matter, a world to save, as much you keep saying,,,,yet, here you are, persistently telling bed time stories to a couple of lazy folks. Quite a paradox ... lol. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24807 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:41:04 +0000 Star 24807@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>yas...wanted to address this and tie it in with the initial idea of the thread...</p> <p>for centuries man has been trying to make objective reality disappear...</p> <p>this is done through religious ideas especially...</p> <p>imo...we are succeeding tragically...even with all the information we have access to, i am amazed that we can turn it off so easily...by substituting instead these ideas concerning illusion, and the abosolute...</p> <p>we may 'bliss out' on bliss, and get real comfortable in our own cocoons...but until we begin to look at things logically...we will never learn to fly free, nor will we be turning into butterflys...</p> <p>we will destroy our earth and all in it...and to claim that this does not matter is ridiculous...insane even...</p> <p>man continues to fuck and produce children to suffer...now i don't see anything wrong with fucking or children...lol...but i do see the insanity of continuing to bring children into this world while destroying their future at the same time...</p> <p>while believing that all is illusion may make us feel better...how does it help anything when your child falls down and skins their knee? do we tell the child not to cry? that it is just an illusion? or keep telling them to believe in an afterlife that they will enjoy if they just do as they are told in the here and now and be good little robots?</p> <p>i say the proof of objective reality is in the pudding...if we open our eyes, we will see a world that is in need of a good shot of reality...and this includes many of those who claim to be so damn spiritual...just b/c we close our eyes and click three times...we cannot make this world and its suffering go away...this is our home...and until we start looking at it for what it really is in the here and now...and get the fuck out of our heads concerning illusion and an after life of streets of gold or buddha's bardo...we remain in the illusion...deluded by our own beliefs...</p> <p>the illusion is not that objective reality does not exist...the illusion is what we continue to tell ourselves concerning objective reality...</p> <p>1. Is there any proof that anything exists if you are not observing it? </p> <p>i cannot observe reincarnation within the bardo, nor can i observe the imagined heaven with streets of gold...so this would be a useless tool, void of experience...but i can observe human behaviour...</p> <p>2. If you cite the reports of others, is there any proof that they exist if you are not observing them?</p> <p>i cannot observe the proof that buddha or christ existed...especially sense no one seems to have heard their true message...but again, i can observe what humans are doing...while professing to believe otherwise...</p> <p>3. If you cite indirect evidence, is there any proof that that exists if you are not observing it?</p> <p>what i am observing is a world in peril...and i cannot look the other way, nor can i deny its existence...</p> <p>am i mistaken in the assumption that you share some of my concerns and beliefs?...much love to you t...always, star... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24806 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:08:11 +0000 Star 24806@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>some more thoughts concerning why we seem to be unable to use our logical brains...</p> <p>the second brain that evolved was the mammalian brain, coined the Limbic System...</p> <p>it is the seat of all emotions...and it appears that it is quiet powerful, and can over-ride the neocortex...</p> <p>this is so easy to see in society, and within our own lives...we base most of what we believe on 'feelings'...what we feel about this or that is allowed to dictate what we do, or don't do, how we act...etc...these feelings and emotional memories are so deeply embedded that they can and do take over and we end up making decisions based on how and what we feel, instead of critically analysing the circumstances with reason and logic...</p> <p>this is why people murder in the name of god...this is why addiction is so prevalent...this is why the battered woman continues to go back to her man...of course the reptilian brain has some basis in this too...as i stated...they are interconnected and never function completely atonomously...</p> <p>b/c of our emotional attachment to religious teachings...and our beliefs concerning love and everything...we are led around and controlled by this brain to a great degree...and this is why it is so difficult for us to look at things logically...</p> <p>and so, it is a big problem when we think with our heart...we should feel with our heart...and think with our brain...but it seems many of us are still unable to chew bubblegum and dance at the same time...lol...may we all evolve...always, star... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24805 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:47:09 +0000 Star 24805@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>my bad...i said shin but meant fin...in regards to your last post and what to do if one cannot use the logical part of their brains to reason...</p> <p>imo...the reason we cannot use them, is b/c they have been lulled to sleep...the brain is like any other muscle...if you don't use it, it becomes weak and out of shape...and since from before the time we are born we are basically told what to do and think...we have never really used our brains to the extent that we can...their potential is amazing...</p> <p>those that have damage in these areas have a legitimate excuse...we that do not...have no excuse at all except pure laziness...and a lack of willingness to think for ourselves...we have been conditioned in this way...and will never be free in this life if we do not address this seriously...always, star... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24804 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:37:05 +0000 Star 24804@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>and shin, it happens all the time where damage has occurred in certain areas of the brain...that is why we should all be so very grateful for our awareness...especially our brains...and learn how to use them to their upmost potential...</p> <p>oh but wait...that would take effort right? go back to sleep...lullaby...what a waste of dare i say it? god-given(awareness) magical gifts we do squander... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24803 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:30:47 +0000 Star 24803@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>to decide that there is nothing to strive for...no effort to make is ridiculous...i assume you two are not homeless right? you strive and work to feed your families...right? do you not see how contradictory your beliefs are relative to the spiritual realm? by continuing to separate the spiritual from the physical...you will continue to be...unwhole...or unholy...</p> <p>did jesus 'do nothing'? did he say don't seek? even buddha put his disciples on a course of rigorous action...is the very act of praying doing nothing? why do you pray? why meditate? why get up and go to the bathroom when you have to pee?</p> <p>your beliefs are very confused...i don't even think you guys know what you believe...you just go around quoting and parroting what you have learned...learn sumin new...k? oh no...that would take effort...which i am certain you both have plenty of when it comes to things 'you' want...</p> <p>your wives would be very disappointed if you failed to put forth effort in the boodwha...lol...</p> <p>always, star... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24802 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:23:18 +0000 Star 24802@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>by all means...let us be lazy and idol and give the fuck up...after all...the buddha says it! it must be true...once again an alarming example of how these teachings can cause us to be...stuck on stupid...you guys are full of laughs! lol... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24778 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:56:59 +0000 abstractprophet 24778@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>hi fin</p> <p>I am totally with you. </p> <p>IMO without the appearance of effort one would go nowhere.</p> <p>Bless </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24770 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:20:57 +0000 fin 24770@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>star, </p> <p>So if the neo-cortex doesn't function well relative to the Basal [Reptillian] brain then its goodnight reason, hello 'never learning from mistakes' ? </p> <p>What then ? Brain transplant ? Pills ? Electro-shock therapy ? Give up, with a smile in peace ? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24769 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:05:41 +0000 fin 24769@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>hey Abby...hey brother, Who hasn't hey strived for something ? </p> <p>Its part of 'our' 'subjective' reality, a 'real' illusion, of incompleteness, of stuff to do , to conquer, to achieve, of battlegrounds we create, or games we play, to occupy the wandering mind hooked on stuff.</p> <p>It never ceases to amaze how we'll create problems, this as a problem, that is a problem, and we must strive for some kind of goal or destination - as if we'll actually get somewhere. You know what i mean ?</p> <p>But, if we strive we strive. If we strive to not strive, not make stuff up, that whats happening. It's not a mistake, not a problem, just inevitable. It's all ok. imo</p> <p>all the best : ) </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24723 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:47:24 +0000 Star 24723@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>if we only had access to that brain, i would agree with your concern...however; that brain is interconnected with the limbic system and the neocortex...and so it is our ability to feel things inwardly and to reason logically that enables us humans to learn from our mistakes...and then to make more conscious choices...</p> <p>these instincts are not all bad, we still benefit from their logical uses...after all...it is the part of the brain that drives us...think of the poor man that is motivated to go into the forest and hunt with patience to feed his family...or to chop down trees to build them a home...etc...it is up to us to consciously use our reasoning abilities to determine which behaviors are useful in any given situation... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24722 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:35:54 +0000 shin 24722@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>"never learning from past mistakes"</p> <p>One has to question this comment, either its truthfulness or its applicability.<br /> Assuming it can learn something, then what and how was it learnt? Was it programmed by successful action and, if that is the case why can't it learn from unsuccessful actions?<br /> Is it pliable only in early life and the 'solidifies'? Recent discoveries in neuro-plasticity might contradict that view.<br /> The more likely situation is that we evaluate this reptilian part from the level of our latest brain addition, the neo-cortex. IMO, this is a really stupid thing to do.</p> <p>In spiritual terms the statement is *seriously* troubling. It sets up part of ourselves, a part that is vital to our survival and well-being, as an impossible to defeat enemy because it does not learn. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24715 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:32:47 +0000 Star 24715@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>the part of the brain and awareness in deep sleep that remains active during it is the reptillian brain...here is a short excerpt concerning it...</p> <p>"The Reptilian Brain. The archipallium or primitive (reptilian) brain, or "Basal Brian", called by MacLean the "R-complex", includes the brain stem and the cerebellum, is the oldest brain. It consists of the structures of the brain stem - medulla, pons, cerebellum, mesencephalon, the oldest basal nuclei - the globus pallidus and the olfactory bulbs. In animals such as reptiles, the brain stem and cerebellum dominate. For this reason it is commonly referred to as the "reptilian brain". It has the same type of archaic behavioural programs as snakes and lizards. It is rigid, obsessive, compulsive, ritualistic and paranoid, it is "filled with ancestral memories". It keeps repeating the same behaviours over and over again, never learning from past mistakes (corresponding to what Sri Aurobindo calls the mechanical Mind). This brain controls muscles, balance and autonomic functions, such as breathing and heartbeat. This part of the brain is active, even in deep sleep." </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24703 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 02:26:28 +0000 abstractprophet 24703@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>"Are we there to begin with? :)"</p> <p>gakyil, just as interesting,,, are we not there to begin with? ;o)</p> <p>hi fin, big ups everytime brother. </p> <p>"We're just aware" - I like that. Just out of curriosity what thoughts do you have around the idea of one striving to be more aware of being aware? </p> <p>Also,,, is what is made up as much what is not made up as what is? </p> <p>"Awareness does not require one to be awake, or even to be alive."</p> <p>Does awareness require anything? </p> <p>starrs that is a cool story. I would imagine that you would be somewhat changed as seeing yourself as a dot on a tablecloth. It reminds me of an experience I had around 10 years ago when I was star gazing one night and I was struck down by the enormity of the universe compared to me. It took me a while to get over that also. </p> <p>"how can we say, iow...that that experience is real and this one is not?"</p> <p>That is the crux of the matter isn't it, reigniting the idea of deep sleep. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24700 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:34:30 +0000 Star 24700@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>question...how is what you just described, that your friend experienced, any more real or not, than what is experienced in this reality? how is it that we define between what is actually real? how can we say, iow...that that experience is real and this one is not? and then deduce by that, that only awareness is real? just b/c someone says so? isn't what they say was experienced...just another experience? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24698 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:19:54 +0000 Starss 24698@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Even in a coma, the person does not remember, but the consciousness in the person<br /> remembers everything...the visitors to the room, the temp of the body, the temp of<br /> the room, the sirens out on the street, their purpose and their reason for being,...the lives of the Dr's and nurses, other visitors in the corridor outside and their lives<br /> and personal challenges. From the center of every single molecule in existance, consciousness expands in a thousand directions. Just under the personal information<br /> we are consciously aware, our lives, our body, our energy, etc., is this second level<br /> expansion of beyond our physical senses. And under that a more expansive level etc.<br /> My take is that when we are not focused on the body so much, our consciousness is<br /> able to expand tons beyond it...but it is so difficult to describe in physical terms<br /> and simple physical words...because of the immensity of it all....<br /> A friend of mine who'd experienced being dead for 6 hours, described this reality<br /> of life as a tiny dot . on a giant white tablecloth. He returned from his experience<br /> and said this wasn't real. For months he was more zombie like than human. There were<br /> things he couldn't talk about because there weren't words sufficient to describe or<br /> explain... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24696 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 11:57:31 +0000 fin 24696@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>yep, agree. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24694 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 04:04:54 +0000 shin 24694@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>"deep sleep, in a big black hole of non-existence"</p> <p>There is plenty of awareness in our deepest sleep.<br /> Everything is aware, in some way. Awareness does not require one to be awake, or even to be alive. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24692 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:00:57 +0000 fin 24692@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>starss, lol, big hot stick ya got there sis, </p> <p>AP,...thats a good question. How are we aware we were in a deep sleep, in a big black hole of non-existence ? We're just aware,,everything else is made up, imo. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24689 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:16:40 +0000 gankyil 24689@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>AP--"...if I am in a deep sleep and observing nothing do I suddenly dissapear?"</p> <p>Are we there to begin with? :)</p> <p>YAS,</p> <p>No,<br /> No,<br /> and No. : (</p> <p>Yes,<br /> Yes,<br /> and Yes. : )</p> <p>and</p> <p>so on. : </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24684 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:18:07 +0000 Starss 24684@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole...<br /> Oops the pole doesn't exist.<br /> I might not exist either in<br /> which case I must be totally touched!!!!!!!<br /> Oops...... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24676 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 03:21:14 +0000 fin 24676@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Interesting YAS, nice mind puzzle as starss says.</p> <p>In the site you linked, Professor Stanley Sobottka, suggests, really there is no "Objective reality", inside-outside, world of objects, etc, writing:</p> <p>" A concept is a result of conceptualization, which is the process of separating and naming....Reality is not a concept. Rather, It is absence of separation. Therefore, It is also absence of concepts and objects."</p> <p>" 'Awareness' and 'Reality' are equivalent conceptual pointers....Awareness is self-evident because you are aware and you know that you are aware. It does not change and It has no extension. Therefore, Awareness is not a concept or object."</p> <p>Its essentially similar to much existent spiritual thought. e.g.non-dualism, Advaita, some Tantric-Buddhist schools and is very clearly articulated. Look forward to reading more. thanks YAS. blessings guys : ) </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24675 Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:05:35 +0000 Ekanta 24675@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>bye bye abs and hallo father. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1218#post-24672 Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:56:51 +0000 abstractprophet 24672@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Interesting, yet if I am in a deep sleep and observing nothing do I suddenly dissapear? </p>