http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Collection of Thoughts Tag: philosophy en Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:48:24 +0000 http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/922#post-20100 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:27:33 +0000 starion 20100@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>I have always loved Mark Twain. Years ago Hal Holbrook, the actor, did a monologue of Mark Twain and it was devilishly clever... Good comedy beats daily news 10-1. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/922#post-20032 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 05:45:12 +0000 Yiming 20032@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Would you consider Sacha Cohen (Borat) and Chris Rock cynics? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/922#post-19967 Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:54:36 +0000 Beckett 19967@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Two Biblical examples of Cynics are Noah and Elijah. Before the flood Noah told people about their follies and evil and implored them to repent from their ways and then to come aboard the ark with him and his family when the time was right. Elijah did most of the same thing throughout his life. One noticable example is his test with offering a sacrifice. No matter how hard the followers of Baal tried to get their god to light the sacrifice on fire nothing happened. As they were shouting Elijah provoked them by suggesting that their god may be asleep. Then he poured buckets and buckets of water on Yahweh's sacrfice, and gently prayed. At that moment a pillar of fire blasted the sacrifice and the water around it into cinders. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/922#post-19966 Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:44:03 +0000 Beckett 19966@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>As with skepticism, cynicism has been given a bad rap. However, like skepticism, cynicism is also a virtueous or noble philosophy. Here's a summary taken from a great websight called the Cynic's Sanctuary.</p> <p>"Cynicism is a Greek invention, like the Doric column or the gyro sandwich. The first Cynics (we capitalize the name when we're talking about the ancient ones) were students of a now-obscure philosopher named Antisthenes, who in turn was a student of the illustrious Socrates. Like Socrates, the Cynics believed that virtue was the greatest good. But they took it a step further than the old master, who would merely challenge unsuspecting folks to good-natured debates and let their own foolishness trip them up. </p> <p>The Cynics were more blunt when it came to exposing foolishness. They'd hang out in the streets like a pack of dogs ("Cynic" comes from the Greek word for dog), watch the passing crowd, and ridicule anyone who seemed pompous, pretentious, materialistic or downright wicked. Fiercely proud of their independence, they led disciplined and virtuous lives. The most famous of the ancient Cynics was Diogenes, who reportedly took up residence in a tub to demonstrate his freedom from material wants. This cranky street-philosopher would introduce himself by saying, "I am Diogenes the dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels." He'd use a lantern by daylight, explaining that he was searching for an honest man. Even Alexander the Great didn't escape unscathed. When the young conqueror found Diogenes sitting in the marketplace and asked how he could help him, the old philosopher replied that "you can step out of my sunlight."</p> <p>As you might expect, the ancient Cynics' habit of ridiculing their fellow citizens didn't win them many friends. People generally don't like to hear the hard truth about themselves, especially in public. But the Cynics felt they were on a mission from Zeus. As the Stoic philosopher Epictetus wrote several centuries later, "A Cynic is a spy who aims to discover what things are friendly or hostile to man; after making accurate observations, he then comes back and reports the truth." </p> <p>Cynics have been making those observations and reporting the truth ever since. The ancient Cynics have turned to dust, but their successors have carried on nobly in their spirit. Great names like Juvenal, Rabelais, Swift, Voltaire and Mark Twain have used the classic Cynics' tools -- bitter irony, biting sarcasm and mirthful ridicule -- to expose the follies of their times as well as the timeless foibles of humankind. If you consider yourself a cynic, take pride in your heritage; the world needs you now more than ever."</p> <p><a href="http://www.i-cynic.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.i-cynic.com/</a></p> <p>Know however the Cynics are not trollish. They merely tell it like it is. Those stand up comedians that sit on the stage in pubs and parties could be considered the modern day cynics. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/876#post-18959 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:34:27 +0000 shin 18959@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>True, many ways. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18945 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:05:08 +0000 Beckett 18945@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Good question. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18942 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:58:22 +0000 GrimNexus 18942@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>is there a difference? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18939 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:49:55 +0000 Beckett 18939@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>"stop wraping shit up in pretty bows"</p> <p>Am I trying to make shit look pretty or are you trying to make something pretty look like shit? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18938 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:39:06 +0000 Beckett 18938@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Though I do agree that such a person as you described in the quote above should be given a wake up call. Honest simplicity is always better than dishonest profundity. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18937 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:38:25 +0000 GrimNexus 18937@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>stop wraping shit up in pretty bows then </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18934 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:25:09 +0000 Beckett 18934@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>"You just want to sound profound and mysterous so you'll be accepted."</p> <p>Don't assume the worst of people. I've tried that before and the results are not pretty. You'll just be hurting others and ultimately yourself. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18931 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:11:37 +0000 GrimNexus 18931@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>beckett, first you said:<br /> "You unfairly neglectic to take into account the poetic or romantic implication of may proposition."</p> <p>lol, what?<br /> no i didn't.<br /> you dont need philosophy to be poetic or romantic.<br /> You just want to sound profound and mysterous so you'll be accepted.</p> <p>---<br /> you also said:<br /> "The philosopher seeks truth by daring to venture outside the box of conventional thinking. The more apparent your premises and less apparent your conclusion, the more impactive your philosophy."</p> <p>what can be more apparent than:<br /> Hey, everything you can think of has no basis.</p> <p>and what can be less apparent than:<br /> What is the solution? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18930 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:52:38 +0000 Beckett 18930@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>The philosopher seeks truth by daring to venture outside the box of conventional thinking. The more apparent your premises and less apparent your conclusion, the more impactive your philosophy. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18927 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:46:32 +0000 Beckett 18927@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>You unfairly neglectic to take into account the poetic or romantic implication of may proposition. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/876#post-18926 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:43:44 +0000 Beckett 18926@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Poems, plays, novels, short stories, lectures, songs... I guess there's alot more than one way to provide a philosophy. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18921 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:34:25 +0000 GrimNexus 18921@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>beckett,<br /> definition taken from dictionary.com</p> <p>Philosophy-<br /> 1. the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.</p> <p>If you could start with the undeniable first, then there is no need for investigation into truths or principles (because they are undeniable)</p> <p>However, since that is not the case,<br /> Philosophy is actually to find the undeniable in the first place. Therefore, if the undeniable is truly found, it is automatically unbelievable, because there's no need for belief or non-belief in what is undeniable, regardless of preferences. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18920 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:29:56 +0000 GrimNexus 18920@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>beckett you said:<br /> "No no no. That was just to show what I mean by "linked by a logical chain." A, B, and C are just variables."</p> <p>If A, B and C are just variables, then how can you be certain they are the same? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18900 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:35:22 +0000 Beckett 18900@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>No no no. That was just to show what I mean by "linked by a logical chain." A, B, and C are just variables. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/866#post-18899 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:31:38 +0000 Beckett 18899@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>I cover that in my "A Dialogue on the Importance of Philosophy" post Yiming. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/866#post-18887 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:46:08 +0000 Yiming 18887@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>If one's preoccupation doesn't pay the rent, could we not conclude that the subject of study is a wasteful enterprise? There are people who spend all their time studying ants crawling up the wall. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18852 Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:21:54 +0000 GrimNexus 18852@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Beckett you said:<br /> "Every A is B (undeniable)</p> <p>Every B is C (undeniable)</p> <p>THEREFORE</p> <p>Every A is C (unbelievable)"</p> <p>Those are not undeniable.<br /> What is A, to begin with? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/866#post-18842 Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +0000 InfiniteRose 18842@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>yes Beckett..I can see your point</p> <p>at the end of the day ...there is still the rent to pay :grin: </p> <p>my son knows this so in a way he has had too side step a little<br /> so he can make a living and still carry on in the same direction<br /> that his passion for studing certain subjects is taking him </p> <p>love rose :grin: </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18833 Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:28:57 +0000 ca 18833@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Hey It's my first try... I'll take another crack at it with the Oh dear formula and post tomorrow. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18832 Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:26:26 +0000 GrimNexus 18832@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>oh ya?<br /> always?<br /> keep drinking, then what'll happen? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18831 Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:18:15 +0000 Beckett 18831@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>Oh did I mention the two had to be linked by a logical chain? I'm fairly certain I did. Oh dear..</p> <p>Every A is B (undeniable)</p> <p>Every B is C (undeniable)</p> <p>THEREFORE</p> <p>Every A is C (unbelievable) </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18830 Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:10:46 +0000 ca 18830@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>When I drink too much tea, I find it always makes me pee! (undeniable)<br /> But stimulation from the caffeine let's me see, what can't be seen! (unbelievable) </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/864#post-18824 Thu, 15 Nov 2007 03:05:25 +0000 GrimNexus 18824@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>beckett you said:<br /> "The point in philosophy is to start with the undeniable and end with the unbelievable."</p> <p>What is undeniable? </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/866#post-18819 Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:41:33 +0000 abstractprophet 18819@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>do you notice how all those divisions you created all fell back to philosophy... </p> <p>as for making a living... means always present themself... </p> <p>also it is ok to concern yourself with such things if that is your concern...</p> <p>bless beckett... </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/866#post-18818 Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:40:15 +0000 Beckett 18818@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>"Nowadays it seems that the higher you are in the heirarchy the less in demand you are in economically."</p> <p>Well to put that in a better way, that's how society works. We have created a system where the deeper your study, the less demand that study is in. It is from this very fact that the school of Cynicism was founded. </p> http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/866#post-18817 Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:36:27 +0000 Beckett 18817@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <p>"what is more and what is less..."</p> <p>In other words:</p> <p>A. How do we know when one subject is more fundamental than another?</p> <p>Well I reckon subjects of study can be arranged in a heirarchy based on how many more subjects they can be divided into. In other words the more subjects covered by a subject, the higher it is on the scale. For a rough example:</p> <p>Philosophy may be divided into logic and art. Logic may be divided into science and business. Art may be divided into rhetoric and design. Science may be divided into biology, astronomy, meteorology, etc. Business may be divided into ergonomics, accounting, advertising, etc. Rhetoric may be divided into playwright, novel writing, poetry, etc. Design may be divided into modeling and drawing. Modeling may be devided into clay modeling, ice sculpting, doll design etc. Drawing may be divided into still life, abstract, expressionism, etc.</p> <p>Nowadays it seems that the higher you are in the heirarchy the less in demand you are in economically.</p> <p>B. How do we know when one subject is more appreciated by society than another?</p> <p>This is a fair and good question. There are many different ways to express appreciation, and I suppose it may all depend on perspective. But specifically I was speaking in terms of being able to make a living. </p>