Collection of Thoughts Topic: Whore of Babylon

Collection of Thoughts Topic: Whore of Babylon http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Collection of Thoughts Topic: Whore of Babylon en Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:01:11 +0000 gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/3#post-23992 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:32:25 +0000 gatesofgrace 23992@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Mary, Yes of course! Here's another look! Becoming cognizant of the interaction with others and how motive outside of self can be appreciated, i started to simply offer assistance to other's, while being careful not overstep my boundaries. As a blue collar courier complete with company logo's and uniform, i responded to assisting other like types. Working in the city we often had to travel up and down arduous stairways and allies. When the opportunity can whereby i "happened upon another who had one of these tasks at hand, i told them i was waiting for time to elapse to stat pick ups and offered to help carry freight. The expression that was shared always makes me smile even today. Sure great thanks, but i can't pay you or anything. I usually responded with you already have, as i saw the drudgery of day to day being overcome with glimpses into new insights. Or so i imagined. Here's the take on some of that. As all good comes from God, any aspect of assisting or helping another in an act of kindness, carries the torch and expands that good. Realizing this... one gives, and does so with the grace and fortitude that does not require similar responses from others. What can be seen (felt) and the ripple that such events will cause is enough. Even if the character helped had ulterior motives to take advantage of the situation, that which was shared can and will no doubt surface in one of their exchanges (actions) down the road and maybe years later. In fact i like to think an act of kindness might surface, from one generation to the next. Mary, of course this is in response to you questions: What do you think Gates ? How are you changing your day to day existence to conform with what you believe true? Sharing some of this with you or another is done so with an understanding that for one to share as this, the matter of enlightenment of awareness has enabled them to do so without ulterior motive and/or reciprocations needed. This is not for everyone and it can be very draining for someone to do this as an idea they have been introduced too, as cool, over those whoa actually have the freedom to do it unconditionally. Hoping you understand this. Till next time! Mary on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/3#post-23958 Sat, 31 May 2008 03:10:14 +0000 Mary 23958@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Gates, Continue if you want to. You had an upsurge of emotion, when you were trying to be left-brained. I enjoy reading you. I hope to learn something in the process. :0 gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/3#post-23899 Tue, 27 May 2008 19:00:25 +0000 gatesofgrace 23899@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Mary asked: What do you think Gates? How are you changing your day to day existence to conform with what you believe true? As one recognizes the blameless truth that is exposed to her/him, they begin to live within that, as opposed to living the deception that was their former selves. They know that what their living is not born in themselves but a universal insight is being revealed for them, that cannot be denied. It is both humbling and contrite while being uplifting; whereby one often starts to drift away from the world in one form of Samadhi or another. This is a reflective state and sum might call it a state of devotion. Removed in part, by what was former, matters such as judgment, and ego driven desires are upstaged by a new kind of insight and awareness. In time even the tiniest occurrence or interaction is as vibrant as any formidable big event that might have been in the past. i remember once at a funeral, after intellectually declaring that the deceased had lived a long prosperous life with no regrets of any pending death; i was overcome by the magnitude of grief that was displaced around me. i fell to the floor and laid my head in my wifee's lap and sobbed uncontrollably. After several minutes i gathered myself together and was kinda mesmerized by the event. Kinda as if i was looking in from the outside. Intellect and emotion not paired together as they normally would be. In time, events that i deemed good or ok were revealed for what they were. Action that i had taken for the purest of reasons (deemed at the time) were upstaged by what really happened, whereby the good that i thought i was doing was as much a part of the illusion that i lived as any other. lol It seemed again for a time that any-all action much be weighed very carefully. Far better at this time to do little or nothing than to mess things up. grin Here one could retreat into Samadhi and forget about the world. This too eventually passes and action-interaction, relationship becomes again something else, something cherished. Only, it was not with just family or friends but with anyone anything. Mary... would you like for me to continue? gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/3#post-23897 Tue, 27 May 2008 09:39:56 +0000 gatesofgrace 23897@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Mary, Been away a few! As one recognizes the blameless truth that is exposed to her/him, they begin to live within that, as opposed to living the deception that was their former selves. They know that what their living is not born in themselves but a universal insight is being revealed for them. It is both humbling and contrite while being uplifting. Whereby one often starts to drift away from the world in one form of Samadhi or another in a state of devotion. Like to continue when time allows. Mary on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/3#post-23883 Fri, 23 May 2008 02:15:43 +0000 Mary 23883@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ IDK, Gates, I've heard in the wind that China may be the next superpower. Call me agnostic perhaps, but I sense there is truth in many different teachings. Revelations being but one of many directions to a universal all-emcompassing truth. How to prepare for the future? What direction to follow ? There are so many ways of thinking.... For now, learning about trees and spotting them on my walk with my dog, feels more the way to truth and peace than anything else I ever did. Eating things farther down on the food chain and recycling more. Mostly being kinder and more considerate to others. What do you think Gates ? How are you changing your daytoday existence to conform with what you believe true ? gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/3#post-23865 Wed, 21 May 2008 01:24:14 +0000 gatesofgrace 23865@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Mary, Such a diverse compilation! One supposes that most of what is written can be applied to the United States. This could also be applied to other trading centers that are defined as trading corridors or travel routes that are visited by continental commerce. The U.S., one might say, would be second to none as one of these entities. The list mostly fits yes! What are your thoughts?? Mary on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23860 Tue, 20 May 2008 20:06:32 +0000 Mary 23860@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Gates, are you in agreement to this description of Babylon from the book of Revelations ? <a href="http://www.thebookofrevelations.cc/WhoandwhatisBabylon.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.thebookofrevelations.cc/WhoandwhatisBabylon.html</a> gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23858 Tue, 20 May 2008 09:53:12 +0000 gatesofgrace 23858@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Mary, Yes of course! Only the later Roman empire, medieval times and over extended monarchies failed in the end because of corruption within the corporate and political entities. For Rome, the insurgence of migrants and the inability to tax and control the growth of her communities allowed the framework for corruption... and the free for all that quickly destroyed her. It is as much in America today with 29 million illegal aliens in her lands. In medieval times one does not ever reflect any course of history without a good batch of corruption; the folklore of these times traveling with the times. Large corporations will be overcome by those who will dissect them in time. Thanks for the look! I want to add something later, that is most disturbing. When time allows! Namaste! Mary on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23856 Tue, 20 May 2008 03:02:38 +0000 Mary 23856@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Hi Gates, I read through your thread about the American Democratic nominees. I feel somewhat more educated about what they both stand for. Thanks! I don't have an opinion with how this election ties into Biblical prophecy or 2012 either. Both nominees have strengths that I'd feel comfortable voting for either , although I'm leaning more to Clinton at this point. The economic and ecological policies for change concern me. As for the whore of Babylon reference, at this time ,the greed of few controlling so much of this planet, is found more with business than government , imo. Its more complex than I originally thought. Very simply, there have been empires all throughout history that have risen to great power and fallen from public revolt and much bloodshed. The Roman Empire, the Church throughout Medieval times, Monarchies, Hitler's Fascist regime,etc.... and today large global Corporations are wielding increasing power... with ever increasing corruption. People throughout the ages have fought to take back their freedom , and will uprise when this situation gets out of control, imo. So if these are the endtimes, and the whore of Babylon can be used as a symbol to describe the greed and debauchery of the endtimes, the prime suspect imo, would be the corporation. A legal "person" , that fits all the criteria for a pathological personality gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23854 Mon, 19 May 2008 18:39:11 +0000 gatesofgrace 23854@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ star propagates another deception: Star writes: look closely at your statement here: "By whatever manner i am vague or speak in the form of mystery or parable, the Lord's before me thought it wise to do so. To share what another could fathom... at any given time is the way of the Holy Spirit." OMFG...talk about egotistical thinking...there you are in a nutshell, claiming to speak as a Lord, from the Holy Spirit, in mystery to the masses that are uninformed! your problem gracie, is you believe this shit! Here's what was really said: By whatever manner i am vague or speak in the form of mystery or parable, the Lord's before me thought it wise to do so. To share what another could fathom... at any given time is the way of the Holy Spirit. I am not one of these Lord's nor could i ever be, yet i chose my words within the consistency that i am able to share within that truth... that is before me. Even if that is limited it is the best i can due. Now because i do that... you think i am with a (holier than thou) attitude. Nothing can be further from the truth. You have spread more division with this than any I've seen, anywhere. Sorta changes the whole context of what was implied. star you are starting to worry me! Why don't you and i just pray for one another. Let's pray, that each of us can be (once again) squeezed so tightly that the deception is rung right out of us, and we are left in the bath water of our innocence. What a nice thought as we share the rubber ducky back and forth. starion, That was a lovely story and a lovely truth. It is needed! Only when i reveal to star my repentant or contrite heart asking for her forgiveness, she would rather me stick it on a spittle over hot coals and stamp it "FORGIVEN" with a club SEVERAL TIMES. lol! That was too funny! Yet, i feel that reciprocates what she feels deep inside her... that i've done to her, in part. Very tough... to be nice when in this way. gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23853 Mon, 19 May 2008 18:20:52 +0000 gatesofgrace 23853@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Mary wrote: Star you have more patience than I do with the way Gates has attacked you personally. Not cool Gates imo. What I read Gates, you've been attacking people. While Star's been sticking to confronting ways of thinking. Mary, You have been seduced by star in to thinking this. She is impeccable at putting out notions while proclaiming she did not actually say this or that and others are captivated by it. Here's my testimony to this. This site was shares by many on a daily basis. It could be a learning ground for each and it often has. But, let me tell you, the postings have diminished with the amount of "star" that is interjected. The notion of grace or humility has not been revealed to her, as of yet it would appear. My avatar or name is "gates of grace" and i stand or sit by these gates sharing and or witnessing to all who share like minds. Again, star and i have a history and whatever she was enticed to overcome, she has held or channeled a part... to help me i guess. Funny come to think of it, i can make parallels to star and Hillary. They will cling or go to any who can help them evolve out of a situation. This in itself is fine without ulterior motive. It is a manner of seeking. But the soul has to be clean from such motive first. Once a dog has been kicked around so many times, even when one who loves them come close, they tremble with fear. In this way when star shares with me, in part she cannot help but react to what (was) despised by her, and i remind her of some of that. gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23852 Mon, 19 May 2008 18:00:28 +0000 gatesofgrace 23852@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Thanks for the looks all. Mary, At times one can see only what they wish or what is opened to them. You are right in your address about loving one and all. The Whore of Babylon is the ground work of deception... that might just allow Hillary to steal the Democratic nomination. The notion that the Whore of Babylon was Hillary per say, was spread by star. You accept her in part and therefore you accept her (takes). This is as much the manner of deception that is spoken regarding mankind. Mary, The clinton chronicles were founded and distributed by others. i linked some of them together. Here's a valid point. If the flavor or her "legacy" is even sublimely outlined in those incredible articles, it will be seen in real time events by her, if true. Now in real time... they have been seen in her campaign!! You wrote: (I won't follow a religious teaching that promotes hatred and division.) If any member here on the COT wishes to add to this sentiment, then i ask each of them to do so now. You are right to say what you have. You are mistaken if you think this retains to me now, or ever. I can offer you much testimony regarding this. Here is a good one! When i ventured from junior or high school at set out to share and make friends, i would never stay with those who cliqued as one, while opposing others. Even as i was accepted as one of them, i would soon wish them well, and move on bumping onto this one or that. ( note: i was a very popular or cool guy so to speak.) Now, even as i call this one or that one to say hello, some for over 20 yrs., they seldom if ever call me, while being most happy to hear from me. I believe they understood my position even back then and accept that i can reach out to any whom i choose. Even as they subtly feel this in part, they cannot see their own failings by the favoritisms they still share. This again is deception, whereby each person feels they hold to what is right or true, within themselves. gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23734 Mon, 12 May 2008 11:13:29 +0000 gatesofgrace 23734@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ <a href="http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81912" rel="nofollow">http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81912</a> The Great Whore of Revelations, Babylon the Great - BibleForums Christian Message Board and Forums This link from a Christian site is very noteworthy. Just as Abraham was told to leave his home lands, we are rewarded in the same way if we seek out the truth. The Great Whore of Revelations, Babylon the Great Here we see more old testament prophecy from the prophet Jeremiah, that lines up with the book of revelation, right down to Babylon whos sitting on many waters. And how Babylon is a golden cup in the lords hand, that makes the nations drunk. Also where some of Gods people are told to come out of it, because of his judgment. Hint the link to continue... gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23712 Fri, 09 May 2008 21:39:38 +0000 gatesofgrace 23712@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ The Mystery of Babylon being an account of the end times stands to reason as final events are foretold throughout the prophetical books of the Bible. The harlot is depicted as sitting upon the beast and partially standing in water, an image which places her in a position of dominance. Some believe the harlot is a representation of an international power as she is described as 'sitting on many waters' The waters represent many nations John describes part of his vision," And he [God] saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations and tongues" (Revelation 17:15). This means that the whore could very well be a major political power and source of commerce worldwide. gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23711 Fri, 09 May 2008 21:38:40 +0000 gatesofgrace 23711@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Considering that Mystery Babylon is depicted as an adulterous woman brilliantly arrayed leads many scholars to believe that she represents a spiritual adultery. This would involve a turning away of God's people from worshiping Him to worshiping and following after false idols; idolatry, in the form of worldly materialism, as the whore is arrayed in jewels, purple, and scarlet. Purple has long been a symbol of royalty, and as she possess great riches, these represent a love for materialism and earthly gain and cause the focus of worship to be turned from God towards material possessions. Throughout the Bible adultery in the form of an unfaithful bride has been likened to one turning from the Lord. According to John's description, the whore will lead nations into adulteress acts, spreading her fornications over the world. gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23710 Fri, 09 May 2008 21:36:55 +0000 gatesofgrace 23710@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ The harlot is not meant to represent the city of ancient times, but rather the present world. She is described as being clothed in scarlet and lavender, bedecked in precious stones and pearls. She is depicted as drinking out of a golden cup that is said to be filled with the abominations of whoredom, and drunk by the blood of Christian martyrs and saints. The name, Mystery, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abominations is said to be written on her forehead. John goes on to describe the harlot as sitting upon the beast with seven heads and ten horns. These images are symbolical representations of which there are a plethora of interpretations. gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23706 Fri, 09 May 2008 19:51:41 +0000 gatesofgrace 23706@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ In this classic story from the Old Testament of the Bible, the people of the Earth were building a colossal staged temple-tower or multi-storeyed ziggurat - that would reach heaven. But did they really believe they could reach their Gods? Most likely the tower would be used as a place of worship. Actually, the purpose of the tower was to provide a common religious center as a rallying point, lest the people be scattered. The builders of the tower were in open defiance of God's command (Genesis 9:1) (53). In the ninth chapter of Genesis, God commands Noah and his sons to "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth" (9:1 NAS). On the fifth day of the creation of the Earth, God gave this command to the birds and fishes (Gen. 1:20-23). On the sixth day, God reiterated this command to the pinnacles of creation, man and woman (Gen. 1:26-28). Humanity was to subjugate the untamed Earth by dispersing themselves. The builders in Shinar banded together for a common ecumenical purpose. Genesis 11:6 suggests that this assembly would have given rise to projects of a purely secular nature. The people did not consider that their misguided enthusiasm may have been just a bit shortsighted. Considering the benevolent, omniscient knowledge of God it appears that the long-term consequences of the Tower of Babel might have resulted in a plight similar to the apostate state of humanity (Gen. 6:1-5) prior to the sanctifying flood of the entire Earth (Gen. 6:6-24). gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23705 Fri, 09 May 2008 19:48:47 +0000 gatesofgrace 23705@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Babylon is an apostate city frequently mentioned in the Old Testament. From 2nd Kings 17:24 through Zechariah 6:10 there are at least 257 direct references to Babylon (Strong's 94-95). Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary defines ancient Babylon as: ". . . a city devoted to materialism and the pursuit of sensual pleasure" (122). In the 18th chapter of the Book of Revelation, Babylon epitomizes mankind's final organized rebellion against the sovereignty of God and is utterly destroyed. This parallels the destruction of ancient Babylon, overthrown pursuant to the prophecy of the 13th chapter of Isaiah. Babel's founder was Nimrod the Hunter (Gen. 10:8-12), who also was a "king of Shinar" (Webster's 798). Nimrod was a ruthless conqueror of the ancient day with ambitious political aspirations (Willmington 53). Willmington states: "Nimrod's name means 'let us revolt'" (53). Genesis 10:9-12 shows that Babel was the first of many cities that Nimrod established. The Assyrian capital of Nineveh is enumerated (Gen. 10:11) as one of the many cities built by Nimrod. The prophecy of the Book of Jonah records God's solemn warning to the city to repent of its evil ways. God sent the reluctant prophet Jonah to deliver the admonition. Nineveh immediately repented. However, the prophecy of the Book of Nahum declares that God's judgment would fall on the subsequently backsliding and unrepentant Nineveh and that they would be pillaged by the Babylonians, Scythians and the Medes. In Genesis 11:5-7 an exceptionally rare and uncommon event occurred. God personally visited the Tower of Babel to see what was going on. Later, God paid a visit to the twin cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ascertain the degree of depravity of their inhabitants. These cities were completely disintegrated by a fiery earthquake metaphorically referred to as a "furnace" (Gen. 19:24-29). The Tower of Babel is extremely significant to the epic of the Bible. The story is much more than God indiscriminately interrupting an insignificant building project. The Tower of Babel marks the origins of the nations of the Earth. gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23704 Fri, 09 May 2008 19:42:40 +0000 gatesofgrace 23704@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Babylonia [2000 - 323 BC] - derives it's name from the city Babylon. Babylon (Babylonian, Bab-ilim or Babil, 'Gate of God'), one of the most important cities of the ancient world, whose location today is marked by a broad area of ruins just east of the Euphrates River, 90 km (56 mi) south of Baghdad, Iraq. Babylonia was located in what is now southern Iraq. Babylonian literature was well developed in the 3rd millennium B.C. Records have been found of highly developed religion, history and science, including medicine, chemistry, alchemy, botany, zoology, math and astronomy. One wonders if a president of modern day U.S.A. in control of Iraq is not historically the Ruler of Babylon. In this one is getting closer to the title... gatesofgrace on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23703 Fri, 09 May 2008 19:40:01 +0000 gatesofgrace 23703@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ The earliest evidence from Sumeria reveals a culture which accorded women equal status with men, and which principally venerated Istar, lunar goddess of life and love, named the Whore of Babylon in the Bible. Ishtar's sacred harlots belonged to an organized hierarchy, painstakingly recorded by the Babylonians. In addition to the activities of the sacred temple whores, there were sacramental sexual initiations as well. The Greek historian Herodotus (3 BC) tells us: 'Babylonian custom compels every woman of the land once in her life to sit in the temple of love and have intercourse with some stranger...the men pass and make their choice. It matters not what will be the sum of money; the woman will never refuse, for that were a sin, the money by this act made sacred. After their intercourse she has made herself holy in the sight of the goddess and goes away to her home; and thereafter there is no bribe however great that will get her. So then the women that are tall and fair are soon free to depart, but the uncomely have long to wait because they cannot fulfill the law; for some of them remain for three years or four. There is a custom like this in some parts of Cyprus." Many of these women returned home to marry and have children. Later Sumerian texts, however, advised against marrying a fully-fledged temple prostitute since she would be too independent, besides being accustomed to accepting other men, she would make an unsympathetic wife'. Star on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23701 Fri, 09 May 2008 18:24:12 +0000 Star 23701@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ i think it very important to note that Senator Barack Obama, and his entire campaign is coming out in support of Hilary Clinton...he calls her intelligent; hardworking; with a love for this Country parallel to his; deserving of the Presidency; qualified; and certainly capable of being President, or Vice President...and states that it is her right to continue running, and just proves that she is full of fight, an able contestant, and that the American People also have the right that this contest be allowed to play out across America...although he does stipulate that he still believes that he is the better candidate...for President of the United States... of course, there will be those that insist that Senator Obama is just playing politics...nice politics...but politics none-the-less...no surprise here, since they both are politicians...lol Senator Obama has also said, that if Senator Clinton wins the nomination, he will support her completely...Senator Clinton has said the same of Obama. nice to see them somewhat pull away from negative strategy towards one another, concentrating on the issues more, and focusing their attention down the line, towards the differences between the Democratic policies and that of Mccain and the Republicans... the media is still trying to stir the pot between Obama and Clinton, but it appears that both are not taking the bait. While Obama is focusing more on Mccain, Hilary is focusing on uniting the Democratic Party, and maybe making a bid towards her electability in regards to the Vice Presidency, although she has not made that distinction, she is outlining what she can bring to the Democratic Party overall. and still maintains that she is the better choice for the Presidency. She also makes it clear that Michigan and Florida need to be resolved, and has asked the help of Senator Obama towards that resolve... So, one question gracie, is Barack stating his true feelings concerning Hilary, is he stating the truth? or is he just playing politics? i realize, given your history of posts concerning this, that this question is really unanswerable if you are sticking to what you have previously posted. if what you have said about Hilary is true, and Barack feels as you do, then Barack is either lieing now to America, or he is stuck on stupid... i am not saying that Barack is either...they are both playing politics, cause that is how politics is played, and both of them are excellent at what they do best...but i have no doubts now, as to their love for the Democratic Party, and their love for America, and their ability to bring the Party together because of this. they both have the insight that America has got to change; Washington has got to change; policy has got to change...and concerning the real issues, aside from all the emotional mud slinging, they both have very similiar platforms...but both of them want to be President, and their is absolutely nothing wrong with that... i hate the title of this thread; i hate what it implies; i find it offensive and disrespectful, and out and out hateful...even if your intentions were not, and i will assume this is so, so, if you want to continue this debate, ON THE ISSUES, i have no problem with that, but it will have to be on another thread, as this will be my last post on this one. starion on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23700 Fri, 09 May 2008 13:22:28 +0000 starion 23700@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ Just informed yesterday by one of my closest "friends" of many decades, that because I did not believe in a certain way, I was going to hell. This person then began reeling off verses from a specific book to prove the statement. I said God is within each and every one of us, there is no hell, we are all children of the Creator of this universe, I am blessed at this moment as are you, that I do not have to conform to any verse or word except what God within me tells me. I do make choices and err on the side of love a great percentage of the time, forgive a lot,but please don't judge me for making my own choices of belief and listening to God in me. And got a backlash of more verses and more statements...taken from that same book. It seems that the book and what they've learned tells them, they are perfect and everyone else who doesn't believe these same words, is a sinner. Even me... who believes that underneath all that exterior stuff, there is a soul equal to me, a piece of the creator, glowing in all its beauty and joy and spiritual goodness. Underneath all of that, we are all cut from the same cloth, woven of that same beauty and joy and goodness and yet each of us carries within us a uniqueness like no other soul in the universe. And I gave up the argument. Neither of us would win. Sometimes it is better to bow down and say "change the subject!" or say "words to think about!" than continue an argument which neither of you win. The person who bows first is the greater soul I think; Knowing the other person is temporarily opinionated a specific way. And that is what ended the "argument" and that we spent a pleasant day afterward. We're still friends.... Mary on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23693 Thu, 08 May 2008 23:14:57 +0000 Mary 23693@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ I've been following this lively discussion and the other Clinton Chronicles one , here and there. I won't follow a religious teaching that promotes hatred and division. I don't think religion and politics should mix either. Did Jesus mix the two ? What I read Gates, you've been attacking people. While Star's been sticking to confronting ways of thinking. As I see it, both Clinton and Obama are human beings, just like us , with a very important job to do. Just my $.02. And I will not engage in this discussion any further. Star you have more patience than I do with the way Gates has attacked you personally. Not cool Gates imo. And any reference to a person being a whore, even symbolically, is abusive. Where's the love for your fellow man Gates ? I'm stunned. p,s. After reading this , I'm more inclined read Buddha's teachings than ever before. This has not been a good sell for Biblical teachings for me anyway. Guess that makes me damned to eternal hellfire then. Hate toward people and God don't mix . jmho. Star on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23692 Thu, 08 May 2008 21:01:10 +0000 Star 23692@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ something else i would like to share with you gracie; because of my perception of what i saw as insane, derogatory, and judgmental comments from a superior religious viewpoint, towards the character of another human being, whether you meant it that way or not, that is the way i perceived it, but because of that, it sparked my interest into their very campaigns and platforms, causing me to, for myself, investigate what each of them proposed, and not relying on anyone else to tell me, or make my decision for me. it was easy, at least for me, to look beyond the insults and judgments of their pasts, and really look at what each had to offer...now having done that, i am now interested in what Mccain too has to offer...i am against the maligning of their character, but am very interested in their actual politics and platforms. it is amazing how we can allow our personal beliefs and feelings to come into play, and fail to see what is really at stake here... which is, in my opinion, as it relates to political issues, which candidate has the best platform, for not only America, but also as it relates to the world. if not for any other reason, your posts have contributed to my awareness of the true politics, and the real issues that face Americans, simply because from my viewpoint, you were waging an all out war against Hilary...go figure...your all out war against her, helped me to sharpen my own awareness where American politics are concerned... this does not mean for a minute, that i agree with your tactics...cause i don't...lol i find them very offensive and conditioned by religious nonsense; but that is just further proof, that because of the offensiveness of your posts...truth and awareness grew. so i suppose, in a sense, i am thanking you for being so conditioned by your religious beliefs, as to appear to border on the obnoxious and ridiculous, because they have caused me to open up yet another layer of awareness within myself...lol Star on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23691 Thu, 08 May 2008 19:55:30 +0000 Star 23691@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ one thing more i would like to acknowledge, that i have been made aware of through these discourses, is my obvious distain for religious conditioning, as it pertains to my own awakening, and the awakening of others. i realized quiet a while back, that without my religious conditioning, of the past, i would not now be able to see it for what it is, and prevent my own awareness, from being trapped by it, yet again. the one thing i do question, within my own awareness, is how do i qualify my out and out hate of conditioned religious beliefs, when i ultimately know, it is for the benefit of all? my only answer, at this time, is that because i have lived the guilt and shame that i was taught to feel by an illusive set of beliefs, as a result of my upbringing, i feel compelled to fight it, my purpose being to prevent myself from falling into it's traps again, and to prevent others from being victimized by the same system of suffering that i myself experienced... whatever our judgments of each other's thinking, i have been called to that purpose. it might be through this very avenue of awareness, that more of my conditioning is released, and let go of...it's a process...a journey within... as i have that right, you too gracie have the right to express whatever it is that you believe. whatever it is within us that compells us to do so, is the power that is beyond our own understanding, and i have faith in that power, that it is for the benefit of all...even when we cannot see it... that is my truth for today... Star on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23690 Thu, 08 May 2008 18:38:38 +0000 Star 23690@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ the real difference between our thinking gracie, is you see everything 'literally' through the eyes of scripture, this is obvious by your analogy of Hilary and America, to the Whore of Babylon; i see things through the eyes of Awareness, without the conditioning of religious beliefs and attachments...that does not make me superior to you, nor you inferior to me, that is just what it is...those religious beliefs have collasped within my awareness, that is all... i am not saying that the parallel to the various systems of corrupt thinking that has directed America's path is not obvious, but it is not limited to America. i am saying that those very systems have been necessary to reach the Awareness that is needed, and in that sense, all is good. also, the only thing that i have really set about doing on this thread and the other, is to plead with you to look at the issues...and not distract from them with your conditioned thinking...by continually distracting from the real issues that confront us in this day and time, only confusion results...attacking Hilary, or anyones character for that matter, or America, from the standing point of religious superiority, does not have any place in a political arena...or within Awareness itself for that matter... that is my only point...i don't think you a bad person; i think your ideas are conditioned, but hey, who gives a fuck what i think? lol...i look at it like this: if you were not here posting your nonsense, i'd have nothing to do...lol...irl...what fun! i look forward to the time that we can have a discussion, not conditioned by all these religious overtones...now there's a prophecy...where if we want to talk politics, we can just talk politics...or even talking religion is ok with me; i love it...i would love it more without all the conditioned beliefs and attachments, but hey that is just me...take it, or leave it... Star on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23689 Thu, 08 May 2008 18:01:49 +0000 Star 23689@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ another point i would like to make, concerning the political issues, is that the very idea of the gas tax holiday, gave Obama the distraction his campaign needed, diverting attention from the Jeremiah Wright contraversy. this has been my point all along... Mccain's gas tax holiday, which Hilary climbed on board with, (with just a little different aspect from Mccains proposal, she suggested that the Oil Companies pay for it;), actually helped Obama refocus his attention from his own problems, to the problems that America is facing on the whole... sooooooo, Hilary actually helped Obama; this is what i was trying to get you to see gracie, that what we sometimes consider unjust, or evil, can work toward the goal of the overall good... i am still undecided, as i do not have a crystal ball into the future, and i have no idea how this is going to play itself out. my own vision is limited, but make no mistake, i can mostly see through the illusion portrayed by each candidate, but i can also see how that is working towards the ultimate good...in the end, it is each ones responsibility to examine the platforms of each candidate, and vote their own conscious...remembering that the media can throw mud at all of them. all of them have things in their past that can be dramatized. but as i said before, whatever happens, i have faith that it is for the benefit of all, even if that means America's own demise... Star on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23688 Thu, 08 May 2008 17:29:16 +0000 Star 23688@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ what is more to the point of this thread, is your actual comment about Obama. he will have to continue to explain why he remained a member of Reverand Wrights church, for twenty years, knowing what Wrights positions were, and he cannot claim truthfully, that he did not know. i am not saying that he was either right or wrong, but Jeremiah Wright has ideas that are considered to be unAmerican, and this is what can hurt Obama in regards to his political asperations. just as Hilary will have to continue to explain herself, should she win the nomination. btw, the numbers have come in, and Hilary does have an advantage with women, and with older voters; although Obama was able to tap into that, it is believed, by the experts, that it was because they were able to see the gas tax holiday for what it was. Star on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23687 Thu, 08 May 2008 17:21:21 +0000 Star 23687@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ look closely at your statement here: "By whatever manner i am vague or speak in the form of mystery or parable, the Lord's before me thought it wise to do so. To share what another could fathom... at any given time is the way of the Holy Spirit." OMFG...talk about egotistical thinking...there you are in a nutshell, claiming to speak as a Lord, from the Holy Spirit, in mystery to the masses that are uninformed! your problem gracie, is you believe this shit! i will continue to tell others to liberate themselves, look within, light their own light, follow no one, follow only their own awareness, and i will continue to battle conditioning no matter how it reveals itself... Star on "Whore of Babylon" http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/topic/1151/page/2#post-23686 Thu, 08 May 2008 16:52:18 +0000 Star 23686@http://collectionofthoughts.com/bbpress/ btw gracie, you yourself included my involvement on this thread, by quoting me in your initial post off the other thread, taking it totally out of context...then when i would not agree with you, you call foul, and want me to stop replying. well, if you did not want me involved, you should have never misquoted me in the first place, but since you did, i can't see how you can't see that i have the right to address it. well, i can see how you think that...but that is your problem. amazing...you ask for thoughts, but when they are given, if they disagree with yours, that disturbs you...maybe you should end your posts with, ANYONE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS THAT AGREE WITH MINE PLEASE SHARE; IF YOU DON'T, DON'T...lol gracie said: "With two years sobriety, who do you feel you should Lord over, now or ever? I tell you, by the imperfections revealed in me to myself, i could never do such a thing" is that not exactly what you are doing?