The greatest tug of war known to mankind is for the enlightened to be exposed to the inner depth of seeing that is offered in the awareness of the "All". Similarly, as such things are enticed... the extremes of this world also becomes manifested upon the heart strings that is one's life. Such extremes are magnified upon the makeup of one's spirit and soul.
This tug of war is unprecedented for the those who are challenged by it. Perhaps for those who have shared in this... your thoughts!!
ray
gates,
you're one member of this forum I've stood back from . I want to understand you better but not sure how. I've for a long while wanted to understand American politics better, still I don't , yet you have a great interest, perhaps knowledge of the subject. At minimum, you intrigue me with that. I sense we think differently but I am drawn to try to understand your perspective better.
Anyway, I think the tug of war you speak of is common ? The more one looks within themselves, the more they're aware of this struggle between the temporary and the eternal ?
Yet you said the extremes are magnified between the makeup of one's spirit and one's soul ? As if they were different , I always thought they were the same. hmmmm.
Mary wrote,
Anyway, I think the tug of war you speak of is common ? The more one looks within themselves, the more they're aware of this struggle between the temporary and the eternal?
Mary as you say, at certain levels, the tug of war... is common agreed. Yet, there is something defined, that when the look within has diminished, whereby the self has no resting place, the impulse from what is known and unknown collapses yet again. One then gets to choose between two outer worlds. Living in one while enlightened by the other. Many seek a resting place between the two, hence the tug of war.
Mary,
The soul is what defines each of us. Just as the Heavenly Bodies, Lord's, and Saints are defined and /or separated by their own soul; it is the spirit that offers to unite each. One spirit born to the "All" in the divine, one that is not.
The look into American politics is as above. The spirit of America and most of this world has been divided. When one calls out and offers to bring together, as in the message of Obama, it is consistent to the divine spirit in the "All". It will bring out the extreme in the spirit that is not.
Whether, it is wise or not to choose to stand back from the likes of this one, makes me truly smile inside. i consider it a privilege to be considered so. i have felt your sentiment as with others here on the COT, and i enjoy your posts.
Blessings!
gracie, there is less of a 'tug of war' if we realize that all is for the benefit of all...even the apparent struggles...and even when we go through the stuggles of this world, being caught seemingly in the middle of the spirit and flesh, we must allow the spirit to rise within us, and stregthen us...and take hold of the resurrection now...and be comforted by and adhere to Paul's words, to learn to be content in whatever situation we find ourselves in...knowing that this flesh is temporal...but that what we are is eternal.
i would say that there is only one spirit, pervading even the seemingly evil...and seemingly good...using both as tools of awakening awareness.
the other spirit you alluded to, would be illusory. Christ is not divided, neither is God...and neither is the Holy Spirit...and although this illusory world appears to be outside the rhealm of the divine, Awareness of the divine pervades every inch with it's invisible glorious awakening spirit...the very light, equanimity, and wisdom of Primordial Awareness.
the soul, i tend to think of it as our own individual portion of awareness. it can be infused and awakened by the spirit, or delluded by the mind of illusion. it can rise to dance in it's own emptiness, agniting itself from within to without, awakening unto the Supreme Source itself, or it can continue it's illusionary journey of the psyche, trapped in it's own web of illusion.
Is it not a time to take sides... a time to decide... i feel, no longer a time for the tug of war... any more for time will soon stop.
Happy as a mad hatter i am!
Good luck Alice!
Even stranger ... why threads are re-surfaced after they lay dormant for 10 months?
That *IS* the noise!
Everything is cycling...leaving here, going out into the universe,
toddling through a hundred dimensions, blowing up leaves, stirring up
a breeze, and then returning slightly changed to be a rerun, but not
quite the same...with all of the additions it found along the way...
hey everyone...
gracie, did time ever start to stop? how would we know this?
concerning taking sides, Rose use to have a quote that was on her posts...something to the tune of...the only correct side to take, is the side that does not take sides...that's not it exactly; anyone know exactly?
star,
In response to time stopping... consider: In the present case... ray it seems... is witnessing rather than experiencing time. In this sense (and one should consider the measure of insight) time "apparent" stops or is considerately slowed.
Let's rewind. Caught up in the hustle and bustle of time... one is fully aware. Yet, it comes from an active measure of self. Whereby, all accounts are reflective upon the everyday impulses (partaking) of life... as it is seen. Of course in that place, with such limited horizons, time is fleeting.
Now, to extend beyond such measures of known quantity... onto let's say the unknown. It is not a stretch to imagine time slowing down as one grapples with the cosmos. Self here becoming absorbed and or lost (hidden) within the infinite. The confines of self are no longer plausible or even entertainable in any real sense. Eventually, the one is no longer reacting within the play, as much as they are witnessing.
star, this might be the point in rose's mention of taking sides. Only the "self" is in position to take sides.
re: taking sides;
What side that is ever taken does not require the side that is not taken to breath meaning into itself?
So removed from the truth, most who remain entrenched with the War on Drugs, need to ask themselves; "What has the Creator shared with us about this matter." It turns out that what is found, is simply the purest insight that any could gather. It is sad that so many cannot see this.
When an adolescent (post puberty) seeks the nature of right and wrong, a guardian that shares wisdom realizes that restrictions and prohibitions, even with justification, is an attempt to withdraw, deflect or isolate one's attention and/or reflection from the matter. All such measures that try this on the nature of another's spirit will consistently fail, and in time, serving to provoke "curiosities" all the more.
Shared with us from many forms of scripture from all religions the simple truth is given. "All things are permissible"; this is very important, but incomplete. For it is followed with this insight, "But not all things are beneficial nor constructive." Further more we are given, "Do not do anything to harm the little one's." The insight to this, is that the nature of their innocence should be recognized and defended against all forms of bias, and censorship; even the nature that reflects their own accord... the power of one's own self needs to be realized. Ultimately, one should never be standing apart, above nor below another. First for the guardian, second for one's peer's, and all the more for the little ones. No child coming before another!
Alas! Instead our prison's and our streets are overrun with lost souls who have become victims of this War on Drugs. This one suggests that as many as 2 billion souls are consumed in this. The war on drugs is a reflection of an ignorance that is second to none in the chronicles of mankind. In its presence the soul of each victim has been given up to poverty, isolation, addiction, war, envy and any other form of debauchery one can imagine.
In closing, there is as much love in the heavens and on earth for each lost soul, some which have become pathetic drug lord's and murderers; as there is love for any judicator or law enforcer who stands by in their ignorance and defends this wretched policy.
What is needed is to stand together united one and all and reverse these prohibitions that in part, continue to divide and destroy the souls of our communities. To do so, offers for each, to become accountable toward each other, young and old... as opposed to these prohibitions that negate our duty to council each other with compassion and understanding. As one considers the chastisements that are offered to those who participate in godless acts. Have we not created hell here on earth by defending laws that oppose immoral behavior? Would we not be far better served to defend and tutor our children with compassion and love, whereby immorality has no foothold.
The ten commands that were offered to Moses and to the Israelites were given regarding two accounts. The first five commands, to those who in wisdom and love could draw near to God and to each other. The lesser five to those who were already lost, a finger that pointed to immoral accounts lived... that opposed each other. Yet, to give one insight without the other, as we do with the prohibition laws opposing banned substances, without offering direction, insight, leadership nor love... will continue to fail.
Listen another child is born... how long before they too, become a victim in this war... it must stop!
ray
i dunno gracie...maybe it is only our 'concepts' of time that go slow or fast...what is time? is it not just another one of our ideas? what is it that is divided into seconds, minutes, hours? this linear movement, is it really a 'thing' called time or is it only what our minds have decided time to be? could it not just as well be possible that everything is happening or not happening at the 'same' time, but the only way that we are able to grasp it and experience it is in slices of linear movement?
abby...agreed. when we take a side or say that something is 'bad', it can only be 'bad' in regard to that we judge as 'good'. we could then conclude that 'bad' is a result of 'good'...or vice versa...which ever way it is looked at, it is a judgement which when made always makes the opposite real...(i am not suggesting that we not have judgements of bad and good, it is necessary for 'human' survival, i am just suggesting that we look at it for what it is instead of what we 'think' it to be...)
much love to you both...
gracie, drugs are 'big money' and always will be...the war on drugs must be fought first in our homes, and outside of them whenever we have the opportunity. spending quality time with our children, making them 'know' that they are loved, allowing them to know themselves and believe in themselves without all the judgements and control methods...allowing them to be free...truly free of even our manipulations, being honest with them and teaching them to be responsible for themselves and allowing them to dream and make their dreams come true...teaching them the value of human life as well as all of life, loving them honestly and in truth will allow them to do the same...whether we admit it or not, realize it or not...we teach by example...our crutches make us less likely to believe in ourselves and our own ability, much less pass that on to the next generation...many times it has been 'religious guilt' that has led children down the path of drugs...not always, but often. i am in no way saying that religion is all bad, but when it makes judgments and produces guilt and shame, fear and hell, etc..., it can cripple a young mind and confuse them and keep them from living a responsible life, accountable to themselves for their actions and the consequences...no more time right now...much love, star...
star,
I agree with what you say is needed. Unfortunateley the drugs which are already legal are used by many people to obliterate the consciousness and intention to do just that.
The suggestion is now that we should increase the pool of legal drugs. The argument seems to be to make it legal cut controlled. While it may save governments money and decrease the power of the drug cartels, may save the user money (to use more?) and make it safer for them, the overall result seems to me rather unpredictable.
What about the long term consequences in terms of employment and health? We know that long-term uses of metamphetamines leads to brain alterations/damage. Increased sexual activity exposes the user to higher risks of HIV infection, etc.
How many people who don't use drugs now would use it because it has become legal?
Experience has shown, that government services, unless subsidised, cannot compete with a private enterprise in terms of efficensies and costs. To make the drugs legal would therefore not get rid of the cartels, but would probably move part of thade trade within the umbrella of the already existing pharmaceutical industry. This would have massive cost implications for the end user, leaving the field open for the current operators to continue, probably with some decreased revenue, but would they even notice?
On an aside, what is missing on this debate is also the abuse of legal prescription drugs. Here we have people involved, namely doctors and phrmacists, who are amongst the best educated, and most tightly controlled professions. All this control does not prevent the abuses and excesses.
shin...good points...i have had experience with the 'legal drug' dilema...for many years it was actually the entire 'medical profession' that enabled me in staying in that repeating cycle...(note here that i am not relinquishing my responsibility for my own sobriety or drug use, but in the beginning, besides being physically addicted, i was also mentally addicted to the 'idea' that i could not function without them...EVER...B/C that is what i was told by many doctors...it took 'drug court' to realize that i could in fact survive without pain medication. the alternative being incarceration...sometimes we need so-called 'bad' things to happen in our lives to motivate us into making more healthy and appropriate choices, which then in turn gives us those little windows of hope within change that results in 'emotional' sobriety and taking 'grown-up' responsibility for our own actions and behaviors and the consequences resulting from that...ie...a healthier and happier experiencing of life on its own terms.
what i have found, is that it always comes back to personal responsibility. the doctors don't know it all...here i sit typing this with almost 3 years clean and sober...nothing has touched my lips except for the occasional tylenol...i am currently focused on my physical needs, as i do still have the ruptured jaw discs, ruptured neck disc, and herniated back discs, but i am 'taking action' and i joined the Y, am doing yoga, pilates, deep breathing, walking, tai chi...do i still have pain? yes i do, but there are many things that i can do today for it besides taking drugs or lying on my couch giving up and feeling sorry for myself. there is a reason for pain...it tells us that something is not right, and i am learning to pay attention to what my body is trying to tell me today. today i have a choice; when i was using, i could not make any other choice...i had to learn how to do better before i could do better...and i had to stop using to learn how. i had to grow up and face reality, and begin living life on its own terms...
until we stop blaming others for everything that is wrong in the world and actually take responsibility for what the universe puts in OUR path, and actually 'do' what is in front of us to do, iow...take action...healthy change will continue to evade us. that has been my experience. most of us are wimps when it comes to pain and life on life's terms...we in the west have that mental conditioning that a pill can fix everything...and yes the pharmasutical companies take advantage of that...they have sold their products to weak minded people that want a quick fix...but who is really to blame? the one that sells the idea and gives the pills, or the one that buys the idea hook line and sinker and takes the pills? each are responsible for their own behavior and actions and need to look hard and long...and honestly at that...
until we look underneath the surface at the tougher individual issues, the problem will not go away much less be controled...we continue to try and fix what is wrong with 'other' stuff...when what we have to do is look within our own awareness and get honest and take the action that unveils itself right before us in this moment of now...that has been my experience.
much love to all...always star...
ray,
Your points are well taken. I am sure it is obvious to most here the rottened core of "the war". Yet, what is it that allows you or I to see "the war"?
What insight could ever be gained without it?
I have been/am contemplating the budhist philosophy on suffering today, and how it appears to teach that all suffering must end with the end aim being to end suffering for all sentient beings (not that I claim to have a firm grasp on Budhism mind you). Yet, personally, today, in this moment, I do not know if that is plausible nor beneficial to anyone who has not attained a certain level of understanding, often through going to war iow. Not saying that it is not beneficial or plausable beyond a reasonable doubt either. It is just that I see how much going to war with myself over and over and over and over and over and over and over (etc etc etc etc....) again has actually helped me. I mean without this war and the ability to experience it, taste it, touch it, feel it etc how could I possible move beyond it?
Why should it be dismissed? Why should it be denied? Yes its trappings are many but does not falling into these traps actually get us to a point to where we do evolve beyond them?
I don't know, what do you think?
Sure when you look at the say the last 10,000 years it is difficult to say that we do go beyond on them. But then again how long is a piece of string.
Niceness & Joyfulness to all. :o)
I was recently having a conversation with a naturopath who was telling me about the body and its mineral requirements. She was telling me basically that for every mineral within the body there is an opposing mineral that balances it. She went on to say that when someone is defficient in one mineral it is usually because they are getting to much of the twin mineral. She used the example of copper pipes and the effects the excess of copper in our bodies has to illustrate her point.
This led me to think about the balance between good and evil within the self. The concept appears to transfer across quite well. For example, when someone has too much evil in their life they appear to lack good. When someone has too much good they appear to lack evil. Where is the balance here?
Reflected into the "Greatest tug of war" a questioon arose regarding wether or not it was the tugging that causes these imbalances? On how many levels does this concept work on, if any? lol
Just some thoughst that I was compelled to share with all here. :o)
Enjoy
With respect to your naturopath, he explanation and the idea of an 'opposing' mineral sounds suspect to me. Wikipedia says:
"It is believed that zinc and copper compete for absorption in the digestive tract so that a diet that is excessive in one of these minerals may result in a deficiency in the other."
Based on that it would be better to say that there is a common absorption gateway for copper and zinc, and that absorption takes place at a rate in which these two minerals are present, so that an excess of one mineral leads to a deficiency of the other.
For her theory to be true there would have to be similar conditions for other minerals,
common gateway and absorption rate.
I just have to shoot down the idea of balance which need s to be replaced with 'optimal conditions'. This may possibly be expressed as a ratio, but is unlikely to be a 'balance' of 50-50. WHen it is stated that:
"Copper is essential in all plants and animals. The human body normally contains copper at a level of about 1.4 to 2.1 mg for each kg of body weight."
In what way is that a balance in any meaningful sense other than "these are the body's needs and if supply fulfills this need the supply is is balance with the need"? This sounds like a tautology, stating the obvious and giving it the fancy idea of 'balance'.
There are 'unqualified desirables'. These are things which are desirable but you can never have in excess (thus no qualification is necessary).
One such item is 'health'. One can never have 'too much health'.
In the context of the question raised, 'too much good' is just not possible, 'good' is an unqualified desirable.
From above:
What is needed is to stand together united one and all and reverse these prohibitions that in part, continue to divide and destroy the souls of our communities. To do so, offers for each, to become accountable toward each other, young and old... as opposed to these prohibitions that negate our duty to council each other with compassion and understanding. end
Some here have offered that creation is to be experienced. That a creator that stands with his/her creation would not encourage prohibition within that creation. Why would any creator hold each and every generation to ransom with this. Answer! He/She creator has not done so.
This war on drugs has this one literally pissed. We tell the little one's, "This and that is not allowed."; but only address the why should/if they get into trouble. The ignorance is astounding in public housing. Here fear and profit drives the power behind drug use and drug dealings. Let me tell you, if we had every form and assortment of street drugs on display for free to anyone willing... no charge in our rec centers. Wait: Then share video's of how kids just like them... become freaks and ponds to the profiting of drugs served by these laws that ban drugs, until finally loosing there freedom and future... ask them to make the choice. Then we would have a fighting chance.
Every drug dealer of all sizes have already lost so much. Marginalizing themselves as the most insecure amongst the many. The weaker of the crowd. Poor little bastards! They need attention that comes from love not money nor profit. If loved they could stand tall against this ignorance and hypocrisy we call the war on drugs. Prostitution is next... don't get me going on that. Outlawing the sex trade so that the most venerable "the beauties" can be seduced and harvested for the rest. Let this world come to an end soon.
Ray dear, wake up honey... what was that nightmare you were having... OH! Sorry are the kids okay? Have you heard from them? Did you have a good trip home from work? I'll be fine, lock the dead bolts and pull down the shades over the windows. Set the security alarm and let the dogs out. There now isn't this nice!!!
~gog,
I see we have gone one step further, now proposing that not only should drugs become legal but also that they should be distributed free of charge.
How do you propose to deal with prescription drugs? Are they also to be made available free, to anyone willing? With what justification would health destryoing drugs be free but health preserving ones not?
i dunno bout all this...making them legal and free? just go sit yourself in the middle of a poppy field and digress into oblivion and then death? maybe the victory is closer to taking the young children on field trips of the devastation...to the hospitals and rehabs; to the projects and morgues...allow them to witness first hand the devastation that is caused by drug addiction and drug gangs...let them see with their own eyes the sores on herion addicts and the aids patients; let them smell and see the vomit and witness the shakes and these poor tortured souls shiting and pissing all over themselves and writhing in pain...let them look upon the bodies that have been rivoted with bullets...let them see the blood and violence...show them the drug addicted babies that cannot stop crying...take them to the jails and mental wards...then take them to the cemetaries...and do this while they are very young...let them see what is in their own back yards...tell them that God and church will not necessarily protect them and save them from the horrors of this world...that only healthy choices have a chance...teach them to respect and love themselves so that they will know how to love others...teach them to be responsible...teach them that there are healing energies within the body...teach them yoga and tai chi, and do it WITH them, so that they can learn how to heal their bodies...but also teach them the realities of broken bones and car accidents, and that sometimes intervention is necessary...show them the cars totaled by drunk drivers...when they get older, get them involved in community service at the homeless shelter or drug rehab...do it with them...be ever diligent not to lose your children to drugs...once they become addicted it is harder to reach them...practice preventive measures, and stop making excuses and justifying your own usage...whether it be valium or something else...exercise and stop eating like a pig to get that blood presure and colestrol down...set a healthy example for your children...find other ways of dealing with pain other then to automatically reach for a pill...that is my take on it...always, star...
shin,
Thanks for the response!
Is it you or is it me that continues to miss this point. Listen carefully, Yes! All things are permissible! To see this is not so difficult. I could step in front of a bus if i like. I choose not too. The consequences are not hidden from me. To share the nature and consequences of action... is the act and cause of a wise man. Whereby a fool, who has lost his way, says nothing... and take his teachings to his grave.
When we say this is banned or that is illegal is much like that fool. If i taught my ten year old son, not to drink lye for it will burn and destroy his throat... i do not need to keep it from him... only from the little one's who know not. If i share with my 16 yr. old daughter... "This is the alcohol of choice of your peers. Four ounces and you will become so intoxicated another could take advantage of you... and you would not know it. Be wise of this and other things should you try this. Be in a safe place." Then a month latter an opportunist shares this with her and a girlfriend. The girlfriend is going for it. My daughter rescues her and they choose to experiment only when safe to do so. My daughter has done this... and she has never taken more than 2 ounces of liqueur etc. Unlike wifee, who was sheltered from any knowledge of these consequences, has not been so lucky.
Adults banning substances for minors... will not impress the teenagers who are seeking their autonomy. The adult need only to turn it around. When giving advise, ask their adolescent at the same time, if they had any advice for him/herself. In time, they could reach a consensus to help and build a bond to one another.
The creator himself/herself has shown any/all who will listen the likes of this, just with the comings and goings of creation.
The poor fella who shot his four children and himself after learning his wife was leaving for another man. He had rage/temperament issues. Let me assure you that with the right teachings, offering the freedom's of choice encouraging wise decision and behavior... and this would have been avoided. Finally, it is from those who remain within their blind natured opinions and close minds... who find it hard to see this.
shin, this is not you!
gates,
in theory it sounds good. In practice there are always unintended consequences.
What are the requirements for a successful implementation of your ideas, and are they in place? If not, how long will it take and how much will it cost to impement them?
shin,
The unintended consequences are greatly diminished when the freedom of choice is exercised with the right intent for guidance and understanding. If each parent offered measures ventured in their own lives and/or their parents lives, without interjecting that one should do this or that, but to offer it is a manner of insight... choices made with this extended insight would serve one well. In fact each parent does that every day at so many levels. The war on drugs was primed as foreign nationals shared discoveries around the world. What did parents do as guardians, and in their ignorance? Outlaw and run away as if the problem could be remedied somehow this way.
Let's look at the commandments from God. If Moses never broke them in rage, on the one tablet was the insight to understand God. Five commands pertaining to God. On the other, five commands pertaining to man and his relationship with each other. The first shows measures of observances to keep with love, compassion and understanding. Without this one needs to look at the other slate. Here it is spelled out. In the carnal nature,Yes! rules must be implied. Do not... kill, commit adultery, steal, covet nor bare false witness. The consequences of the first not hidden as in the latter. Does this not entice insight and understanding, first for relations with man, second for the divine? Such commands must be balanced. We should do the same!
Thoughts!
Not only parents, Gates. If you love yourself and are taught to respect
yourself, then your decisions are wise ones which are good. If you are
taught you are sinful, must be cleansed, purified, baptized to put God into you, then you believe you are flawed in some way, and are less responsible. The whole idea
of life is that you are so precious, you must act as you know yourself to be.
All of the "do not's" are guidelines, not solid laws. They are suggestions
which our ancestors believed promoted better choices.
No one ever comes out and says "if you hurt, steal from or cheat your neighbor,
you are really hurting, stealing or cheating yourself and is that wise?" yet that is the truth of it.
No one ever says, "God loves you so much and with such unwavering love, that nothing
you could ever possibly do could separate you from God." Yet, that too is true. If
God knows all things; God knows you will make a mistake long before you know you will make
a mistake and it has already been forgiven. So what is the value of making mistakes???
To learn how it feels to do the wrong thing...after which it doesn't feel so good to
repeat it, so you don't.
Since anybody can make a mistake, can err in judgement, it has to be forgiven...
and probably the saying that All roads lead to Rome, might also say "All paths lead
to the Source." So in that case, there is no wrongness or rightness but ISNESS. And
each of us, in our own way, is doing the best we can.
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