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Whore of Babylon

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Started 6 months ago by gatesofgrace
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gatesofgrace
Member

Revelation 17:5-6
"On her forehead was written a name, which is a mystery, ‘Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth.’ I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus. When I saw her I was greatly amazed."

Here's a comment from the Clinton chronicles just posted by star:

Clinton's ability to reach the 'archie bunker' voters is also obvious; you can't really tell those people the truth and have them understand it, and Hilary knows this. They are like little kids, they want what they want, and they want it right now...Right or wrong, it seems to be working in her favor. She has played the game so long, and she is very eloquent in so doing. End Quote!

This very much is the power of Hillary's campaign. Now prophecy is from God alone. Those who feel they share in it must be one in this. This is not the offering here. Yet, consider! At the time of Babylon where the masses had been duped into believing a tower to the heavens would reveal the mystery of God and salvation, a great, perhaps subtle deception was spread over the land.

Now with Hillary, and the backing of CNN. She has pooled a block of voters, calling them the blue collar vote. This is more deception than real, until you make it so. Then, regarding the gas holiday, which is nothing more than a flat of beer... if it worked and does not help anyone. Followed by what Obama has already stated that the masses are distraught and angry, she tells them we'll (U.S.) will nuke the Iranians if they Attacked Israel. Now if any country on the globe were to nuke another the allies would deal with that. TO me this is as close as the Whore of Babylon deception that i can fathom. star seems to share as much!

Thoughts!

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

gracie, i do not believe that Hilary is the whore of babylon, nor do i believe that babylon is America.

was not the one thread bashing Hilary enough? and did i not make my views quiet clear there concerning your judgments?

Hilary is a politician, not a messiah, and has never claimed to be anything other than what she is, and you are doing the same thing everyone else does in this emotional debate...you are taking my comments out of context, and placing them in the context of the scriptures where they have no relevance, except in the minds of those that have been bound by them and the ideas they induce.

on another note, Barack is not a messiah either, and has never claimed such nonsense.

gracie, it appears that you want to take these politicians, who have government issues to deal with btw, and put them in a box of religious ideas to make sense of your own conditioned views...

while you sit righteously on the outskirts looking in with your judgments, on a country and government that has literally made your life possible, you reach to divide instead of unite. how does this help to solve the problems that not only America faces, but also the world?

sincerely and respectfully i ask that you please not include me in your dellusion...you do not speak for me.

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

""Babylon," the human desire for earthly riches and success in the gratification of the flesh, begins to be destroyed as humans are shown the consequences of their prostitution of their higher faculties.

SYMBOL
MEANING

Seven candlesticks, seven spirits Perfection, the divine number
Six Imperfection, the number for humanity
Mark of the beast The unevolved animalistic force within humans
Mark of the lamb The evolved divine force within humans
666 The unevolved animalistic force affecting the triune nature of humans (body, mind, spirit)

Chapter 15-18: Seven angels, seven vials of seven plagues, and a prostitute riding a seven-headed beast

Literal: John is shown seven angels each of whom holds a vial containing a plague which they pour upon the earth one at a time. John then sees a woman sitting on a seven-headed beast with ten horns. The woman wears on her forehead the name Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth. John is told the seven heads symbolize the seven mountains on which the woman sits and the ten horns symbolize ten kings. These make war against the lamb and the lamb conquers.

Interpretation

John is seeing within the soul of humanity, the collective unconscious, that the souls of individuals are purified and tested on seven levels of consciousness symbolized by the seven plagues being poured out by the seven angels. When all seven levels of consciousness have been purified, then and only then can a person control the physical, mental, and spiritual forces within his body.

Physical diseases arise from the misuse of the forces and self-gratification of the flesh, wars against universal truth. This brings about conflict in the world against groups and governments. The end of the seven ordeals comes when humanity's social institutions and concepts collapse, leaving universal truth to be realized.

The Prostitute of Babylon symbolizes humanity's desire lust for riches and gratification of the flesh. The beast it rides on are man-made ideas stemming from self-gratification. It is explained to John that these forces have taken control of the seven spiritual centers of the human body, thereby becoming possessed and ruled. However, as the highest forces of evolving humanity overcome the forces of self, even the ten basic urges of the body, symbolized by the ten horns, will in time fulfill the divine pattern. As the divine nature in humanity becomes less realized, society is destroyed by its own hand through self-gratification."

this is not limited to America or Hilary by any means...in this view, which Edgar Cayce revealed through the spirit, it is a description of the human being and their own personal journey of liberation. noted, any society that is controled by its own desires, which includes every society that i am aware of in one way or another, will be destoyed by it's own hand...

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce10.html

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

This very much is the power of Hillary's campaign. Now prophecy is from God alone. Those who feel they share in it must be one in this. This is not the offering here. Yet, consider! At the time of Babylon where the masses had been duped into believing a tower to the heavens would reveal the mystery of God and salvation, a great, perhaps subtle deception was spread over the land.

Now with Hillary, and the backing of CNN. She has pooled a block of voters, calling them the blue collar vote. This is more deception than real, until you make it so. Then, regarding the gas holiday, which is nothing more than a flat of beer... if it worked and does not help anyone. Followed by what Obama has already stated that the masses are distraught and angry, she tells them we'll (U.S.) will nuke the Iranians if they Attacked Israel. Now if any country on the globe were to nuke another the allies would deal with that. TO me this is as close as the Whore of Babylon deception that i can fathom. star seems to share as much!

Thoughts!

star,

If you just read objectively the point. I could include any soul who has reached into deceptive politicking and say the same. Here in Canada the lack of leadership would scare you. In fact, it does scare the Americans who come here and try to do business or otherwise. There's testimony seen here where developers came... and when they were subject to the red tape and the politics they dropped everything and fled. The politicking that lead to this was a consistent deception that offered each generation of voters the types of things the "Archie Bunkers" wanted to hear, then they forget about it. Caring even less about the outcry.

Now the Whore of Babylon is in reference to anyone or group (campaign) who does the same ________________ just fill in the blanks. What is even more pathetic are the pundits who are offering that; as she is smart and determined enough (DECEPTIVE)enough to fool the populace, then bully for her; no matter if she destroys the (U.S.) and the rest of the planet with her. Golly Good Show!!! She MUST therefore be the one who is more electable!

star, Here was the point!

Yet, consider! At the time of Babylon where the masses had been duped into believing a tower to the heavens would reveal the mystery of God and salvation, a great, perhaps subtle deception was spread over the land.

Now the splitting of tongues, and the separation of the people, to be considered in a righteous manner in Babylon, must have been against a falsehood or manifesto of thought that was nasty in origin.

Let me ask you this. You will not see me table anything more sincere or discerned. Should Hillary win this thing when the populace knows she is dishonest, deceitful and for all tense and purposes, evil by orientation. You do not want to be around when that bar has been lowered to the Streets of America in mass.

Thanks for your thoughts!

star you wrote: She has played the game so long, and she is very eloquent in so doing. End Quote!

I have not seen this as being eloquent. Any, who play such games,(for selfish gain), i perceive more as conniving deviants... drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus.

What have i missed?

Please continue!

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

Hey look at that! Just read you last post star. My last post was before i looked at yours. They seem much on the same lines indeed. Only i will wait for a time when you can see my thoughts, more for what they are, than what you portray. For many, witnessing righteous positions might seem holier than thou. If "i" see into something and suggest it is echoing a righteous standpoint, it is not to take credit. i have never added to the flames of righteousness that can be seen or found. When you see a tiny bit if that you will see a tiny bit that is... gracie.

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

if you think that Hilary could alone destroy America, or that Obama could alone save it, you are more delluded than once thought.

what will save or destroy America, and the rest of the world for that matter, is ourselves...our own awareness, and taking responsibility for ourselves, and our nation, and our world. America's leaders are limited to, and are only a reflection of America as a whole.

we must work to unite our leaders and our country, not divide them; afterall, none of them are perfectly right, or perfectly wrong, concerning their ideas on how to change.

this is bigger than Hilary, Obama, Mccain, or even our government as a whole.

you cannot blame everything on Hilary. Her reason for using this gas tactic, was to prevent Mccain from stealing the democratic party out from under her and Barack...if you cannot see the wisdom in that, then you are having vision problems...

if the blind cannot see, and the deaf cannot hear the truth, then it must be told within a mystery...

Hilary is an asset to the Democratic party, and an asset to America. Just because she has been unable to beat the 'big guys' at their own game...until now, she is not responsible for everything that has gone wrong with America, and i find your comments concerning her, suggesting that she is evil by orientation to be ignorant.

Clinton continues to show great courage, great wisdom, and great commitment to change and uniting the American Nation for a better tomorrow, and a better world.

although i can see through this gas tax, i also see beyond it; and even though i might disagree, i see her wisdom, and the fact that she does not mind being called stupid, which she is far from being, to bring the democratic party together, only causes more admiration for her...

if Clinton has to use fear tactics or whatever, to unite America, and get the Republicans out of office, so be it...Bush used it, and see where it got him and America and the world? sometimes good must be fought with so-called evil...

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

you edited your post gracie...foul!

did God himself not prevent the Egyptians from 'hearing the truth' to benifit his people? Did he not 'harden the heart' of the Pharoah, to reach beyond the confinements of an enslaving people?

America is enslaved by her own desires and beliefs, is it not beyond your comprehension that Hilary is doing what she is doing for the benefit of all, regardless of her critics?

Politicians have to use political ploys to be elected; that is just a fact, but if you look at her platform, you will see that her interests are to benefit America and the world as a whole. Her ideas are similiar to Obama's. She has more experience than he does in Washington, and YES, i admire the fact that she is ruthless, and is fighting for the democratic party as a whole. America is in trouble, and Hilary knows it!

When Mccain introduced this gas tax gimic, she saw beyond it. once again, Republican tactics were being used to sway the crust of America, which is typically not interested in anything but immediate relief in their daily lives; they don't realize that they are going to have to change the very way they live their lifes, and are not interested in all the politcal rhetoric...

how else can the blind be led, except by those pretending to be blind?

so instead of allowing the Republican candidate, an opportunity to literally steal Democratic votes, she showed great wisdom, and yes eloquence, in tapping into that very section of America that is easily swayed...

this is also why she used the hard language of obliterating Iran, which was compared to Bush language...as the election comes closer, the focus will go back to the war, and the Democratics need to be seen as standing strong on keeping America safe, because the Republicans are going to use the fear tactic again to try and sway Americans to keep them in office...

damn gracie, where the fuck is your insight?

THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH! AND YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM UNDERSTAND IT!

however; if the Demorcratic Dream Team of Hilary and Obama, can get into office, then America will have to listen. if the both of them are not on the ticket...i cannot see the Democrats winning.

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

...what will save or destroy America, and the rest of the world for that matter, is ourselves...our own awareness,

...You will not see me table anything more sincere or discerned. Should Hillary win this thing when the populace knows she is dishonest, deceitful and for all tense and purposes, evil by orientation. You do not want to be around when that bar has been lowered to the Streets of America in mass.

these statements above to me are the same...

...and taking responsibility for ourselves, and our nation, and our world. America's leaders are limited to, and are only a reflection of America as a whole.

we must work to unite our leaders and our country, not divide them; after all, none of them are perfectly right, or perfectly wrong, concerning their ideas on how to change.

...Now with Hillary, and the backing of CNN. She has pooled a block of voters, calling them the blue collar vote. This is more deception than real, until you make it so. Then, regarding the gas holiday, which is nothing more than a flat of beer... if it worked; and does not help anyone. Followed by what Obama has already stated that the masses are distraught and angry, she tells them we'll (U.S.) will nuke the Iranians if they Attacked Israel.

Again saying the same thing... She sure as hell is appealing to the unity of those voters. Now i recollect another in recent history who rallied the people, offering the same kind of determined focus. They called him Adolf.

...this is bigger than Hilary, Obama, Mccain, or even our government as a whole.

... wasn't bigger than Adolf now was it? One man can stir up a great deal it would seem. Now i'm not saying woman are the same, though many might say worse, pending the situation. grin!

Imagine, our thoughts coming from the same vacuum; saying the same things, while blowing in opposite directions. Eventually, it's probable, we just might meet...or not!

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

if you actually think we are saying the same thing...you're an idiot gracie...

where you are making Hilary responsible, i am making every individual responsible, if you cannot see that, then you are blinded by your own limitations and beliefs.

concerning Adolf, he could have never had that much power, had he not been given it...

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

OMFG...i get it! you are not so much for Obama, as you are against Hilary...because she is a woman...

it all makes sense now...light bulb moment...would that not make you a whore of Chauvinistic thinking?

which makes sense given your religious conditioning...

fyi, Obama may not be as politically deceptive or perceptive, as Hilary, but he too has used political expediency to get where he is, don't for a minute dellude yourself into thinking otherwise.

it is the nature of the beast...

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

there is another aspect to this political fallacy:

if the Republicans continue their rule in the White House, the abortion laws will be overturned among other things, who knows what will happen with the cival rights for gays, women, and minorities, and we will go back to a more church and state, white-rich-males governing rule, determined to convert the world to our way of thinking, killing whomever gets in our way, hiding behind a flag of freedom and Christianity...and we will destroy ourselves and the world in the process...

which may be what is meant to happen anyways...

how's that for an analogy to the whore of babylon?

the whore of religious conditioning...of which you seem to be a bastard...

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

star wrote:
OMFG...i get it! you are not so much for Obama, as you are against Hilary...because she is a woman...

it all makes sense now...light bulb moment...would that not make you a whore of Chauvinistic thinking?

which makes sense given your religious conditioning...

star,

You found me out! Now, whatever you do, do not tell my seven sisters. They think they are all friends of mine, and that i fit so well in their midst. But like Hillary it simply is a ploy to gain a vote of confidence. This helps my situation as you could imagine. All i need to do is spread rumors of them to each other, while coming out looking like Mr. nice guy.

Funny that they never catch on to me. But then you haven't much either. This does sorta make you a surrogate sister... in some ways.

I hope this little bastard is welcomed as well...to your home! Here! Let me rub your shoulders a little, while i tell you what your sisters have been up too.

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fZHou18Cdk&eurl=http://www.barackobama.com/index.php
YouTube - Yes We Can Obama Song by will.i.am

Time for my afternoon song: Si Se Puede

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

by continually bashing Hilary, you are taking away from the issues at hand. how the hell does she deserve all your self-righteous indignation?

i stated earlier that the gas tax holiday is a gimick; but i also stated her obvious reasons for it. she was not the one who initially proposed it, it was Mccain, haven't heard you say anything concerning that, maybe it is truly Mccain that you support, and are aware of the fact, as most are in the political arena that Hilary poses the greater threat to Republican rule. as i cannot read your mind, i do not know if that is in fact the case. however; can you not see the bigger picture? please, just for a moment, think of it in terms of that context, and maybe just maybe you can see how important it is for the Democratic party to not lose it's voters to Mccain and the Republican party, as has been the case in the last two elections. this political play, might very well be the determining factor in rallying those flighty Democratics, back to the loyalty of their party base...please tell me that you can see beyond your own judgments to this very important aspect.

Hilary knows that this is not a long term solution and has said so, her political platform speaks volumes to the necessary changes towards long term solutions, but i think, she is willing to look stupid, for the benefit of the Democratic party as a whole...if she does not grab those voters, they will turn tail and vote Republican...and for that, yes i admire her, and i think she is showing great political savy...

it is not about Hilary and Obama, it is about which one of them can beat Mccain...

i happen to think that it will take both...

do i think she is duping the American people? she is telling them what they need to hear to gain their vote away from Mccain...very intelligent move. it looks like her and Obama are against each other, when they both are uniting against Mccain...

she is outsmarting Mccain and the Republican party...it could very well back fire on her if all of a sudden those Americans that are asleep suddenly wake up, but who really thinks that is going to happen?

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

Obama has bigger problems, if you think that this thing with Reverand Wright is going away quietly into the night, you are sooooooooooo mistaken. Mccain is going to come back on him with this in full force. this is going to be a fight like has never been seen in American elections. it is going to encourage voters to vote in the masses...and i am still not certain as to who needs to be on top of the ticket, but believe me when i tell you, all of this is being played out for those super-delegates that are watching this so closely, and Hilary cannot be counted out.

the problem with Obama being the front runner, is his 20 year stint with the very contraversial and politically aspiring Jeremiah Wright. this would be less of a distraction if he were to run as Hilary's VP...but these are very disturbing issues that face the Democratic party as a whole. Obama's other problem is his lack of experience in the cut-throat world of Washington politics.

you still have Florida and Michigan primary votes that are going to have to be accounted for, because the Democrats need those voters in the general election. if they are counted out by the Democratic party during the primaries, that will have fatal consequences in the Presidential election for Democrats...

it is true that Obama and Hilary both want to be President; what is best for the country remains to be determined. i have to say that your lack of insight and ability to see the bigger political picture, is somewhat surprising to say the least.

The Democratic Party may be for reform, but in the end, the Democratic Party wants a Democrat that can beat the Republicans...Hilary may have a case that is stronger than Obama along those lines...

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

star,

Let me tell you, your tenacity and disingenuous remarks are one and the same as your candidate. Calling me what you like, while placing words in my mouth, has its limits ya know. Seeing the big picture has prompted this post. In all my years, i have never seen those who are staunch supporters of any one candidate bail, as some of her former supporters have. Guess, you and she would rather not talk about such things.

Hey! The only thing she ever needs to do when this stuff airs, is say something disingenuous once again to nudge the media to overlook it. If she gave me anything... listen star... anything that was worth supporting outside of her White House (experience),(that no first time President ever had that wasn't the Vise-President) i would truly look at it. That's the point your missing, i have been looking. What has surfaced is scary. Hence, the large amounts of manure she piles on is outrageous. To the point of steeling his campaign. In fact, the last few months she has mimicked his campaign strategies without any discretion. Yes we will! How bloody pathetic was that. Solutions is what she is offering. Like the gas holiday! help me!

Anyway, that's just my limited religious... conviction limited, ego driven bias's that surface with my every suggestion. Thank you for believing in me, once again!

Time for another song...

...in grace

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

i never said that she was my candidate. if you were bashing Mccain, like you are her, i would be defending him. you are not the judge of another, no matter how upstanding and religious you think your character to be.

it is one thing to disagree with someones policies, it is quiet another to call them a whore and blame them for everything wrong in America...that is just unintelligent, and appears very desperate.

and you never answer the obvious; how is Hilary responsible, all by herself, for the condition of America? and where is your faith in your God? if it is meant for Obama to have the nomination, he will...and Hilary nor anyone else will be able to 'steal' it from him...

as far as delegates switching sides, that is the process working...the other stuff you are going on and on about, is just politics, and to be expected in a political race of this nature...jeeeze...you actually expect them to play nice? dream on...

as far as my being disingenuous, i disagree, but you are welcome to your opinion.

and gracie, i was very careful not to out and out call you anything...if you look at my posts more carefully, you will see that...

as far as believing in you, it has nothing to do with that...i take issue with your attacks upon a fellow human being, and your judgments condemning her. if you want to condemn her politics great, but be for real, you can do that without calling her the whore of babylon. the evil that you see in her, you apparently went looking for, and is more of a reflection of your own awareness, and says more about you, than it ever could about her...

everyone has skeletons in their closet, and during a campaign, the media makes more of them then they are for the most part. the way you have conducted your campaign against Hilary, just makes me look closer at your reasons for doing so. it also makes me look at the bigger picture...i have no respect for those that use the tactics you have used towards Hilary or anyone else...and for that reason alone, you lose my vote.

i think you should seriously consider seeking some psychological counseling.

i'm trying to talk the issues, and you are getting all caught up in the emotional rollar coaster of who would be the best candidate according to how you interprete biblical scriptures...get a grip...the way you are attacking Hilary is not a good example of Christianity...

no, i take that back...it is a very accurate example of your one-sided self-righteous stance on Christianity...

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

star, ...hillary i mean star

Read the following:

This very much is the power of Hillary's campaign. Now prophecy is from God alone. Those who feel they share in it must be one in this. This is not the offering here. Yet, consider! At the time of Babylon where the masses had been duped into believing a tower to the heavens would reveal the mystery of God and salvation, a great, perhaps subtle deception was spread over the land.

Now your defense of Hillary while attacking me is more to the point of your last post. My critique of her is shared by every living soul, who has had the time to look in and see objectively, the nature of what she has become. You are not one of these, and i do not fault you, as you carry much with regards for being angst. Whereby, i was one of those who pushed you or helped to dissolve the hold of those demons that held you in bondage for so long.

At least in part: Effects you it seems... when the force is strong.

...and gracie, i was very careful not to out and out call you anything...if you look at my posts more carefully, you will see that...

...while you sit righteously on the outskirts looking in with your judgments...

...please not include me in your delusion...

...you are more deluded than once thought...

...if you cannot see the wisdom in that, then you are having vision problems...

if the blind cannot see, and the deaf cannot hear the truth, then it must be told within a mystery...

...damn gracie, where the fuck is your insight?

...if you actually think we are saying the same thing...you're an idiot gracie...

...would that not make you a whore of Chauvinistic thinking?

which makes sense given your religious conditioning...

...the whore of religious conditioning...of which you seem to be a bastard...

...how the hell does she deserve all your self-righteous indignation?

...please tell me that you can see beyond your own judgments to this very important aspect.

star wrote,

Now with the above: i was very careful not to out and out call you anything...

As i said you are sounding as much as she as any other of her cronies who are on the CNN political broadcast. Wonder what conditioning remains on their hardened hearts, to take the side of the evil one so blatantly.

Now this (seemingly) delusional, judgmental blind man lacking wisdom without insight, must be allowed to continue his idiotic chauvinistic religious rants to continue bastardizing his self- righteous indignation to this forum.

Unless, of course you feel otherwise my master (sucking in with breathing prostesis).
It will be as you command... entitled one.
In time they will join us...
It is the only way...

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

Hillary's fly on the wall.

Some have said Barack is actually a Muslim.

Answer: Well it is what it is.

Leaked memo from Canada points to political posturing when it comes to free trade for Obama.

Fact: Her people leaked it cause many voters where sitting on the fence because it was Billy who ratified the thing. All they needed was a little lie shove to settle things for them. Equaled 10 points in the end.

The chants of "Yes we can" ECHOED from the shell that is Hillary's mind as she spits out... with her head turning 360 "YES WE WILL"!

Fact: Her vision is outstanding! It is a master imitator and deceiver. Others might call it eloquent.

... AS WAS THE WHORE OF BABYLON!

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

Clips of Jeremiah's sermons falls onto a news room desk. Where did it come from? Then he is no doubt antagonized relentlessly, and subconsciously bribed to consider book launch should he go public with his truth. If it's the truth and you can make a small fortune for your charity, why don't you... why don't you... why don't you... why don't you Hey! Jeremiah what are you doing? What's come over you?

...dark cloaked figure in the back of the church slides under pews and vanishes without a trace.

...Hillary beams with excitement. Thank you my Master!

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

star,

There are no illusions to the forces at play. As this world belongs to the dark lord the awareness (truth)lies in the spirit of the people. We have shared at least that, and it is that which i take from our discussions. Your empathy for/to her is expected. I suspect a large portion of her followers wish to support the wife of the estranged affairs of the former President. To say you are discerned about my attacks on her reveals as much. What i shared was posted from off-shoots of the Clinton Chronicles. I created nothing in this and your defenses... very much give substance to all that was found.

Yes Virginia, there is much deception out there. It lives in the tainted lives of all of those who fall short before the eyes of the Lord. Now, never mind any of that! You rest for awhile... it will be all over soon.

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

well, i did call you a self-righteous, delluded idiot, but then i used your own language, that you had directed at Hilary, against you, to make a point, that you just don't get, and that's ok.

when Jesus got angry, he got angry at the religious leaders, that bound their people in chains of religious laws, and lived in hypocracy, sitting in their high places of judgment. it was not against the government of Rome. i see a very important lesson in that gracie; and i see you, as representing that high place, of hypocritical judgment, where your rules are one-sided, and you pass down judgments, condemning all that do not believe the way you do, and according to your understanding of the scriptures.

this dark lord that you speak of, that you claim is Hilary's master, is the very God of the old testament and of this world, that you worship! you have yet to see that. and if these kinds of beliefs, are the kinds of beliefs that are behind getting Obama elected, and what Barack represents himself, they will fail, regardless of whether or not they reach the oval office. but they will serve their purpose. so in that, they will not fail. the God that i know, uses our judgments of good and evil, to serve a higher Awareness beyond our conceptualization...and so, i am getting out my popcorn, and watching the drama tonight, unfold, just the way it should...politics are halarious!

much love gracie, you are always a good sport, but these back and forths just make me realize more and more, that there is something here that is working that goes way beyond my control, and seeing your determination, and your stand on what you believe, just strengthens my resolve, not to be bound by the very chains that you hold so dear...and that's ok! i will continue to be a free spirit, and you will continue to condemn souls to hell...and we will continue to spar...lol

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

gracie, the real issue here, is not about a specific person, but specific policies. when you attack Hilary Clinton as you have done so deliberately in this forum, you divide the Democratic Party, and that is not helping anyone but Mccain...(which...i dunno; maybe it is he that needs your help, and why you are insisting on giving it to him.)

I personally admire the way Obama has handled himself, and his appeal to the younger generation of change and hope for that, is apparent, and to be commended. Hilary's resolve and strengths, are also to be commended, whatever their mistakes in the past have been, they both love America, and love the Democratic Party, and are for change; both their policies reflect that, and, in both their speeches at the dinner held in Indianapolis, they came together and resolved to support the other, whomever won. as far as Hilary adopting Obama's policies...praise God!

we cannot afford at this very crucial time to have a divide within the Democratic Party, no matter what our personal views are concerning either politician, and both of them, are politicians. while you are trying to be helpful, your outside looking in judgments are not helpful to even Obama's cause. by condemning Hilary, you condemn the very party and voters that represent the Democratic Party, and Obama himself...Americans have the right to elect whomever they feel is best for the job...

that is why i am questioning your wisdom in this; all you may succeed in doing, is causing those Hilary Democrats, to vote Republican, like they did in the last two elections that gave the Republicans the key to the WhiteHouse and power, that was instrumental in bringing us to where we are today...at a precipice, for global change...

you accuse her of using fear tactics, but is that not what your entire thread was doing? you are trying to control others with your scare tactics, and are no better than the very things you yourself are judging and condemning...

for someone that is inside, as i am an American, to listen to you, someone that is outside, and will not even be voting, condemn someone in such a way that very well may be, my nominee, for the next President of my United States, calling her a whore, and my Country babylon...that offends me, and offends Americans and woman in general.

you have already admitted to the problems within your own Country, which apparently you cannot change, and yet you seek to do damage, and divide my country, with your hateful remarks.

for better or worse, this is my Country. with all her mistakes, and i do not deny the mistakes or candy coat them, but there have been many great accomplishments.

but you know what? i have faith in the goodness of the people of my Country. i have faith, that no matter how much outsiders are working towards our demise, regardless of their intentions, that no matter what others do to divide the Democratic Party, it will come back united; it will lick its wounds, and heal itself, with a stronger resolve than ever, and it will take back the WhiteHouse, and make the necessary changes to turn our Country around.

I will support whatever candidate that is found to be the last one standing of the Democratic Party. Hilary with all her baggage, or Barack with his lack of experience. I might not agree with everything the Democratic Party stands for, or for what an individual candidate has done, or stands for on all aspects, but I see it as the only Party, to further liberation for people everywhere, and to accomplish changes that we need as a Country, to flourish in the future, in an everchanging environment, and to lead others to do the same...

It is time to move forward in this world of ours, and put those things which are behind us, behind us...i don't give a damn about what was done yesterday; can't change it, but we can learn from it...America and the world is crying out for us to put those things behind us that are behind us, and press forward towards the goal of a higher calling...in that spirit, i will diligently support the candidate that is chosen by that higher authority, and i will work towards the change that needs to happen.

you may hate Hilary, you may hate America...but if you are not with us in the struggle of a better Democracy, then you are against us...if you are not trying to unite, then you are dividing...if you are not healing, then you are hurting...where you cannot or will not see good, you are only left with evil...

politics are politics...but God is good...and we are to give God what belongs to God, and give Ceasar also his due...and know, that whichever Ceasar gains that power, they have been given that power through the awareness of the Ancient of Old...and all things work together toward the good...even what we may judge as bad...for them that love the Lord...even when our conception of that Lord is different...

may you think about that gracie, and may you look within your own spirit, and judge within yourself.

may we all seek to become part of the solution, instead of the problem...

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

star,

I have not attacked anyone. It is your perception that i have. Much like you saying i seemingly or might be, or perhaps, feeling a certain way. While saying you did not call me anything directly. You did say a bunch as i see it, about me, and i believe as you see it, i said as much about Hillary. Yet, it is only perception as it is seen by another. Hillary does this and you call it eloquent. You do it and you feel it's eloquent. i do it and it's something else. lol

... go figure

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

well gracie your whole thread has been an attack...and your still missing my point. Hilary does not need to fall on her knees and publically admit to all of her so-called mistakes on national television...what you don't seem to acknowledge, is that there is a very big possibility, that Hilary may pray every night, asking the God of her understanding for guidance. God has her where he has her for a reason, and Awareness will work through her, in whatever way it does...for the benefit of all...these things are beyond our understanding, and must be accepted on faith...

my purpose was not to condemn you, and call you to repentance, etc., which is what you did demand that Hilary should do...that has been your strategy with everyone, including me when i first got sober...something that you don't seem to realize, is that we already reap what we sow, that is a natural consequence of our own actions. we don't need hellfire and brimstone preachers to tell us that anymore, that is painfully obvious. We also do not need our shame and guilt on display, that serves no purpose; even Paul warned one of the churches in a letter to admonish a brother, but not to such a drastic extent that he would be discouraged...our purpose is to spread love and encouragement, and i don't see where you are doing that with your posts gracie...

what we do need, are liberators like Christ, that actually liberate our minds and help us see the light within us...apart from religious ideologies...not so-called christians that condemn us and further try to enslave our minds with yet more of the same religious rhetoric of the past...that Jesus himself condemned and called hypocracy...

i simply threw your judgments back into your face...i saw them as hypocritical. my language got tough right back at you. my intentions were to direct my comments at your thinking, not at you personally. what i personally think of you is that you are striving for good; it is in your way of accomplishing that where we disagree...

the only thing i was aiming at condemning, was your thinking...and the only way that i could point that out, was by using your own language that you used against Hilary right back at you...but gracie, are you actually saying that you are calling the thinking of Hilary into condemnation and not the person herself? that you are not condemning her as a person that needs to seek forgiveness for her actions? that is not what has been expressed in your posts. would you not agree that alluding to her being the whore of babylon America was not strong and very offensive language that does not serve the higher purpose? can we not find a better way of communicating than that?

the difference in our approaches as i see it, are that you still think with that religious thinking, that calls all to repent of their sins, by feeling guilt and shame and asking forgiveness...using words like Whore and Babylon to make your point...

i ask that those chains be dropped, and that the change be in the thinking...which includes the idea that when we put on Christ, we have put off the old...where is the need for forgiveness, guilt, or shame? it is a tool of control, that keeps awareness trapped within it...

after all, if Jesus could rest on the cross, and ask his God to forgive them for they know not what they do, and teach the prayer to his disciples, of "forgive us our traspasses as we forgive those that trespass against us", what does this say in regards to all that you have said on this post and the other?

i have no problem with you arguing the issues or the differences in policies...where i have a problem with you is in your approach of attacking another human being with words that are filled with hate and can only encourage division and continue to hurt us instead of help us...

this is my perception, trunuf, but is it not accurate? let's be honest here, how can any of the things you posted be looked at as helpful? you are spreading malicious gossip, even if it is true, and defaming someones character, and distracting from the more important issues that we in America not only face as a Country, but you along with us face as a World...

now i will admit; calling you an idiot may or may not have been helpful, but at least i did it too your face, where you have the opportunity to defend yourself...

i agree that our government system has to be changed, but i do not agree with your demands that it and those that have been involved within it, are pure evil...this is the same old shit that man's traditions over time have used to control others and make them believe and do what they wanted for their own desires...saying that America is the Devil, and Hilary is her whore is just outright nonsense, but the sad part, and this is where i felt it necessary to debate you, is that many will believe this garbage...and be trapped by it.

you may not like my tatics, but gracie, you and i are at war...you would like to bind minds further with your beliefs of what the scriptures teach, and i would like to liberate them...and i will use whatever amonition necessary to defeat you at your own game...to obliterate the chains that bind...the very word religion means to bind...i say free yourselves from this diabolical manmade thinking...that is the great Whore of Babylon...the Thinking, of the conditioned, religious Mind...

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

and btw, you are misrepresenting my statements concerning eloquence, as i have stated over and over...i am saying that she is an eloquent politician...obvious by the fact of her ability to gain votes...

you cannot honestly think that politicians will ever be guided by the religious beliefs that you hold to, nor should they...nor can they, and be effective in governing this society...

as far as my being eloquent, well that is not my concern; my concern is liberation and truth...that which is not limited to our own conditioning or understanding or perception...beyond conceptualization.

Posted 6 months ago #
gatesofgrace
Member

star,

Wait till you see what she is gonna do to steal this nomination. Then you can let me know how much praying she does or to whom. Just stay tuned.

Hey! This is a prophecy isn't it! Let me tell you when that happens... the whore of Babylon = ( mass deception); will be unleashed upon the earth as in the days mentioned of Babylon in scripture.

Since you've got me figured out good for you. Only when i have something figured out it's judgment. lol

The only war, again between us, is perceived. In the same way you cannot say you love me with all your heart... because your perception of me has clouded your thinking. Some day you will love me... for real! Another Prophecy! Golly!

Happy B-day xoxo

ray... in grace

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

Genesis 11
1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

2And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

3And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

4And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

5And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

this is the actual language of the scriptures that refer to what you gracie have suggested as as an analogy to what is happening within America, and Hilary's nomination for President...

notice the language of the scriptures, where it states that all had become as one...but the Lord here, regarded as plural, comes down and babels their speech, confusing them and scattering them, preventing them from being united.

i say that this is the work of the so-called 'dark lord'; the earthly creator god, to further perpetuate division and confusion. now i readily admit that this had to happen, and was by greater design allowed to be by the Awareness of the Ancient of Old...who uses the 'dark lord', the old testiment god, for divine purposes...and i can and will if need be, quote many scriptures in the old testament that obviously point out the existence of these two lords...one ofcourse is the right hand of the Almighty and one is the left...one is Christ, and one is considered to be the devil...one light, one dark...but the Awareness that is the Ancient of Old, flows through them both...one is the lower consciousness, one is the higher awareness...the Supreme Source is beyond them both...

this is readily accepted in gnostic idiology; that the god of the old testament was infact the dark lord of carnality. that the serpent in the garden was really the light, the Christ of Awareness...

we can draw the analogy with our political parties as well i suppose, right and left...lol...but to single Hilary out as the whore of Babylonia America, is not an accurate analogy...by any means, when referring to the tower of Babel.

if it was impossible for man to spiritually unite and reach the very heavens and Supreme Source by becoming one...and decietful for them to try, then why pray tell babel and confuse them? if it was impossible, then there would not have been a need to babel and confuse them...while babeling and confusing might be seen as evil, it can also be seen as righteous, because it has given many more divine sparks a chance to become aware of what they really are...a world without end, amen...

i say it was possible to unite and liberate themselves from the dark lord of religious confusion and conditioned thinking, but that it was not yet time...

today, we still have plenty of confusion and babeling going on to distract us, but that does not mean that we cannot unite, as one, and liberate ourselves, and work towards a better world, a freer America, and liberty and justice for all...where the true gospel of awareness is lived...beyond our conditioned judgments...of light or dark...where all our energies are united, and used to honor our human lives, as the gift that they are...on this awesome planet, underneath our brilliant sky...time for a change...CAN WE DO IT?

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

gracie, i missed your very last post, and i don't know how to convince you that it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not i love you as a fellow human being.

just as i defended Hilary, who is also my fellow human being, if someone came out blasting you, saying basically that unless you repent you are going straight to hell, and let's not mince words, correct me if i am wrong, but that is what you believe, right? why else would there be a need for guilt and shame and forgiveness, if there were not this heaven and hell, reward and punishment scenario still at play? anyways, i would just as readily take up for you in that instance.

again, it is this ancient 'mindset', to coin a phrase from chip, that i am addressing. the whole issue of guilt and shame that has been perpetuated witnin mankinds thinking, for controlling and manipulative reasons.

from all you have posted, you are emotionally committed to Obama winning, because he apparently adheres to your religious beliefs, or so you think. and it has become obvious that you will go to almost any lengths, to drive your point home. you see Obama as good, and Hilary as evil. it is your own desires that are driving you, and your own judgments that they are good, according to how you understand and interpret the scriptures.

i am not judging you as good or evil; neither have i ever said that you needed to feel guilty or shame or repent or that you needed to be forgiven...

i am simply pointing out that your conditioned religious thinking is in question, and that you are doing the very same things that you are accusing others of...

i see you very clearly; you are a child of your conditioning, and you are trapped within your own conditioned religious beliefs, according to your interpretation of the scriptures.

i think it quiet disturbing that you believe what you believe, and that you are now self-claiming to be a prophet, and suggesting that if things don't go the way you think they should, all this violence and evil will be unleased, and OMG, talk about fear tactics...but hey, you have every right to believe this nonsense, and i have every right not too. and i also have every right to oppose your views, and call them to your face hypocritical, judgmental, idiotic and unintelligent. that is not a judgment upon your soul, it is a judgment upon your conditioned thinking.

on another note, mother nature is releasing her own violence upon the earth, but it is obvious, at least to me, that unlike you, mother nature is reacting to human ignorance, and in a nonjudgmental way, to environmental changes. this is where i do see lots of things being unleased, and our humanity being tested. but it has nothing to do with a wrathful God of reward and punishment, and everything to do with us as a human race to begin taking responsibility for how we live our lives in regards to this planet and mankind everywhere.

i have never claimed to have it all figured out; i am at the mercy of Awareness, like everyone else...

Posted 6 months ago #
Star
Member

gracie, one more thought, until your conditioned, religious concepts crumble, there is no way that i am buying that you are awake, regardless of your claims. you are still thinking in terms of your beliefs, and therefore are limited by them. until you absolutely realize, that none of those beliefs really exist, you will be prevented by those limited beliefs, from acutally tasting the depths of your own true nature. you are still holding on for dear life to this Old Testament God of reward and punishment; the only way that this God exists is in our minds.

thanx for the birthway wish, and i do love the awareness that is really you...but i do not love your conditioned awareness, infact, i detest it, and the fact that it traps your own true nature from being revealed, and teaches others to be trapped as well...

Posted 6 months ago #

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