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the elephant in the room...

(36 posts)

  1. Star

    i am so proud of my Country tonight; they have come out for their candidates...and the Democratic Party is strong...many are calling for a healing of the party now...so that we can move forward to the general election...

    i am so happy for Senator Barack Obama, who has been declared the winner of the North Carolina primary election, and looks to also be the winner of Indiana, or really close, which at this point is too close to call yet...

    newscasters made a parallel to Bobby Kennedy, who 40 years ago today, won the Indiana primary, his first...

    that elephant in the room...nobody is talking about...nobody even wants to think about it or consider it...but as it is on my mind, i am just as sure that it is on the minds of others...we keep our silence...and hope...that we will not have to talk about that elephant in the room...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  2. Mary
    Member

    Mary

    Wha? assasination ? Is that the elephant you're referring to Star?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  3. Star

    yes, a lot of Americans are concerned for the safety of Senator Barack Obama...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  4. Star

    another elephant in the room, that many are beginning to speak out about, is the possibility of the Democratic Dream Team...Obama/Clinton ticket for 2008...

    Barack just gave a very moving speech, very humble, and very genuine...thanking North Carolina, and prematurely congratulating Clinton on a win of Indiana, which is still too close to call...Barack also united he and Senator Clinton, stating that whomever wins the nomination, the Democratic Party will unite...

    everyone is anticipating Hilary to take center stage, and questioning whether or not she will at this time concede the race, or continue to fight, which for her, seems to be an impossible win...

    already, the media is laying the foundation of the Dream Team...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  5. shin
    Member

    shin

    { the Democratic Dream Team of Obama/Clinton... }

    Oh my, I think that would be a disaster. Inviting the old, entrenched thoughts and behaviours will snuff out the life potential of the new.

    16 years of Bush area, 8 years of Clinton area, and now you guys contemplate another 4 or 8 years of hidden Clinton hegemony? You guys must be crazy! Better wake up from this dream before it is too late.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  6. Star

    not necessarily shin, although i think many hold your view concerning the new with the old...but they may not have a choice...what is best for the voters of 'this' country is most important...and only we can decide that...

    if it were up to me, i would have Senator John Edwards as a running mate with Barack Obama, but they aren't ringing my phone asking for my advice...lol, so i will just have to settle for whomever they do decide to run on the ticket...

    you can say a lot of things about the Clintons, but they are not giving up...she has just announced that she will continue on, letting the crowd know that she needs money by telling them to visit her website and support her...she has come out before she has actually been declared the winner of Indiana, although she is suppose to win it, it is still too close to call...

    i don't think looking back and criticizing is helpful at this point; moving forward needs to be our focus, whomever is on the ticket...

    i'm just praying to Awareness that we have reached a point in our Country, that the other elephant in the room is a non issue...we can deal with the Hilary one...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  7. Star

    i think...i hope...lol

    it may look quiet different when the big Republican guns come out...if Hilary is on the ticket, all her and Bill's skeletons will tumble out of the closet...again...what drama...oh well, we may be nuts, but hey, remember what was said about madness???????

    along with that, there can also be great genuis...lol

    Posted 6 months ago #
  8. Star

    in his speech tonight, Obama says that he is going to turn the page...and it is being assumed, by much of the media that he means on the Bushes and the Clintons...Obama was very gracious towards Hilary in his speech, but the word from some that are close to him suggests that Hilary is not a consideration for VP...

    maybe Bill Richardson is an option...

    soooooooooooo, some in the media do not see the Dream Team happening...

    still no clear winner on Indiana...Obama still chipping away at Hilary's 51% to 49% lead...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  9. Star

    Clinton wins Indiana...but it is so close, that it will not really mean much of a difference in delegates for that particular state...

    looks like the race will continue, but unless something major changes, Obama is expected to win the nomination...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  10. chip
    Member

    chip

    "Obama is expected to win the nomination..."

    Not surprising actualy, the ancient mindset is still in place.

    Women were the last citizens to get the right to vote. After the civial war, black males had the option to vote, no woman was allowed to. And if anyone thinks winning the right to vote was an easy accomplishment read your history.

    This is NOT a comment on black and white, it's a comment on gender predjuides which i have heard voiced privatly and on the media via interviews. ( no one dares voice race preferances on the media )

    i don't favor one over the other, just observe reactions, and it amuses me to see the quandry of the old held beliefs facing the choices of black or female.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  11. Star

    Hey Chip!

    Clinton is making her opening speech in West Virgina, the next primary, and she is coming out strong with the issues that we face as a country. She began with enviromental issues, and went on to speak about long term energy plans and change. She also spoke of health care, gas prices, and education. She is not as electric as she has been; she seems to wear the effects of the race now, and is speaking more in harmony with Obama, and against Republican rule...and underneath her words, is the demeanor of a candidate who knows she is already defeated.

    The math is stacked against her. She does not have enough delegates to beat Obama, and yet she is not giving up just yet. It has been said by the media that already the closed door talks have begun between the two Democratic candidates, so there will be no more bashing each other, they will continue to unite as one party, and within the next few weeks, Obama will be named the Democratic candidate for the general election and will run against Mccain. Still no news on a VP nominee...

    Chip, it is obvious that there are still those in America that will never vote for a Woman or an African American because that 'mindset' is still in place.

    but, in their favor, they both have worked hard on this campaign trail and have brought millions of young people, and first time voters on board...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  12. Star

    Clinton is not giving up! she is really a fighter, and continues on the campaign trail, giving Americans and the states in the remaining primaries a chance to vote their preferance...got to give her credit, the elephant in that room, which says that there is no way she can win in delegates, is being ignored, as she rolls on into the ring...and fights to stay alive...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  13. Star

    Clinton is predicted to win West Virgina and Kentucky; maybe, probably too little too late to win the Democratic nomination; whispers of her changing to Independant ticket, to continue running; also, we now have a Libertine candidate...this is halariously ridiculously entertaining...lol...we might just have a four-way race, which would really change the political map in November...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  14. Star

    here's an elephant for you, that is not simply in the room, but is coming out the closet with bells on...lol

    many supporters of Senator Barack Obama, are supporting Ohio Senator Hagan, who is a Republican, as an exciting, wise, and unbeatable, choice of running mates for the Democratic ticket in November. what a way to bring America closer to unity! yeah America!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  15. Star

    the emotional atmosphere of this political race is becoming more and more obvious...

    chip, your elephant in the room is finally being discussed at length in the media per some remarks made by Hilary Clinton where she rightfully states that hard working, middle-class whites, are voting for her, and pointed to Obama's inability to win them over.

    what is even more obvious, is that the majority of women voters are behind Hilary, including many black women.

    however; Obama, within the last few primaries, has shown that he can get the majority of black votes, even with the Clinton's historical ability to win that black vote in previous elections.

    the obvious emotional waves of this political race are becoming more and more apparent:

    a black man, vs. a white woman...

    these issues seem to be dividing the Democratic Party, at the rejoicing of the Republicans, who appear to need all the help they can get in this election, due to the polls that have anielated President Bush and his Republican administration, which in theory alone, connects the GOP candidate, Senator Mccain.

    i think that that in terms of Hilary, having Bill for baggage, hurts and helps her.

    Obama's baggage seems to be more of an out and out racial kind, hidden behind suggestions that he is anti-american, pro-black, and just too damn liberal...which at the beginning of the race, he was being criticized for not being black enough...lol

    there is still much speculation as to whether or not these issues will divide the Democratic Party beyond repair.

    i say, take the emotional attachment of race and gendar out of it, and vote the issues, which have become very confused beneath the former...

    it has also become obvious that the issues clouding the issues have become the main issues...

    there are those that think having Hilary for President, just means that we are re-electing Bill...and are inviting more of the same...

    then there are those who cannot seem to get past Obama and his relationship to his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, and his church, that support Black liberation theology, which has some themes that are not acceptable by main-stream, white, christian, America...

    the drama continues tonight, where white West Virgina will go for Hilary Clinton...but what is obvious to me, are the issues that are being ignored here...West Virgina is coal-town, and Obama is for a more drastic change in regards to environmental issues than either Hilary or Mccain...

    where America needs to educate herself more, is that environmental issues can be perpetuated and used for other purposes than the good of the environment, as can clearly be seen by this oxymoron idea of clean-coal that Obama has tried to steer clear of, yet both Hilary and Mccain are pushing, even though they KNOW, from environmentalist that this is a political ploy for getting votes by pretending to do something for the environment, when they are simply using it to gain votes...this elephant is not being discussed in the media...

    my political rant for today...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  16. Star

    btw, i have been closely watching Obama's environmental policies, and it has become apparent that he is listening to the scientists that really know their stuff, and is not giving into these political ploys that play on fear, and use technology to disguise itself as real solutions...

    it appears that he is inexperienced, but he is honest in what he is telling the American public, and he listens, and admits his mistakes...i like that, and am convinced that as long as he surrounds himself with intelligent, honest Americans, that are experienced, and there are a lot of them, he will be a force for true change to be reckoned within the political arena and this up and coming election...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  17. Star

    btw, another elephant in the room...these white voters that are actually voting for Hill and Bill, the Clinton's, are uneducated...only 17% of West Virginians have a college degree, and those votes are going for Obama...

    what does this actually say?

    it says, that the uneducated population of America, mining in the coal-mines, killing themselves and the environment, are easily swayed by empty promises...

    it also says, that we need to work towards educating our uneducated...training them for better jobs...which Obama supports...

    it is being suggested that Obama has just written these voters off, but what may be closer to the truth, is that they cannot handle or understand, and do not want to hear the truth...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  18. Star

    another point of interest is that West Virginians also have the third highest rate of senior citizens...put with that the fact that most of them are uneducated and white, there you have another elephant in the room...many of these uneducated whites, are more apt to be still scared of the black guy...or, prejudice against him because of the color of his skin...so naturally, besides the environmental issues that threaten their coal industry survivial, that Clinton and Mccain are playing too, this long imbedded racial issue, still is prevalent within the mindset of these voters...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  19. Star

    for all intent and purposes, regardless of whether you are for or against Hilary, her resiliency is tremendous, and to be admired...all the latenight showhosts are having a field day with her, however; everything she has done, has only served to make Senator Obama a better candidate. she showed-up his weaknesses, and he is learning from her, obvious by his attempt now in Michagan and Florida to reach those voters that Hilary seems to claim; so this very campaign may prove to be much of the experience he needs.

    also, whatever her reasons for staying in this race, they are obviously helping the Democratic Party as a whole...even amidst cries to the opposite.

    this is fun to watch unfold...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  20. Star

    Clinton may not be getting out of the Democratic race, but she sure is singing a sweeter tune...she is expressing her complete and total support for Obama and his platform...and vows to work diligently for his campaign, should he win the nomination for President...her direct insults toward him have ceased, and she is focusing more on the differences between the Democratic and Republican parties...

    Senator John Edwards has come out in support of Barack Obama...

    Obama is ahead in delegates, superdelegates, and popular vote...

    the biggest elephant in the room now, is who is Obama going to choose as his VP...still no word on that, both Hilary and Obama are claiming that they will not entertain the idea, until a nominee from their party has difinitivly been chosen...which still has not occurred, but Obama has the math on his side, and is the proposed nominee...but the race continues...with Kentucky and Oregon holding primaries on Tuesday...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  21. Star

    foxnews, especially shows like Hannity's America, Hannity and Colmes, and Bill O'Reilly's O'reilly's factor, have really been hitting Senator Obama's candidacy hard with allegations concerning his honesty, in regards to his relationship with his former Pastor, Reverand Jeremiah Wright, and his church of close to twenty years.

    Wright, who is accused himself of being anti-american and has ties to many who are also considered to have so-called anti-american overtones...has been shown making so-called derogatory statements concerning America, over and over in sound bites of some of his so-called questionable sermons, including one that was given after 911, where Jeremiah Wright quotes another leader, stating that "America's chickens have come home to roost"...and that "God Damn America" for it's terrorist acts on others...

    also Obama's relationship with William Ayers...who was pro-active against the Vietnam war, is being continuously brought into question...

    Reverand Wright has ties to many black leaders of the world that are considered by America to be enemies...it is being suggested by foxnews media, that either Obama is a lier, or that we do not yet know the real Obama...they are busy trying to dig up dirt, and slam his successful campaign, by deflecting attention from the issues, to this media nonsense...as i see it...

    look for this elephant in the room to continue exploding all over foxnews...who while claiming to be fair and balanced, seem to be very biased by their own self-righteous, conditioned far-right, christian ideas...they don't really talk about the issues, but are actually clouding them, as it is becoming quiet obvious that their candidate is not up for the job...

    just my opinion, as i see it...if anyone has another side, please let me in on it, so that i can look at the facts...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  22. Star

    lots of elephants in the room, depending which room you are in...lol

    Senator Clinton wins Kentucky primary...

    Senator Obama wins Oregon primary...

    Senator Obama secures necessary delegates, according to the party rules, and moves ahead...

    Senator Clinton has changed the number...

    the elephants to watch are Michigan and Florida...

    the most important elephant? the Superdelegates...

    Hilary's not giving up...Obama moving forward to the general election focusing on differences between himself and the Republican candidate Senator Mccain...

    wonderful speeches by both Senators Clinton and Obama...

    Posted 6 months ago #
  23. Star

    Scott McClellan, former Bush press secretary, blasts Bush administration with new book, stating what has long been obvious, that the Iraq war was not necessary...but he gives creedence to many elephants in the room, now from a somewhat insider prospective, as to what was really going on behind the scenes.

    duh! this is old news, but it is getting lots of milleage, especially as it pertains to the upcoming election...giving democrats plenty of ammunition...

    Republican Mccain, states he will never surrender in Iraq...

    Obama is having fun with that one...

    McClellan states that he was lied to, along with President Bush...hmmmmmmm...what elephant does that wake up?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  24. YetAnotherSeeker
    Member

    YetAnotherSeeker

    Whoever is elected Prez will have the White Elephant of Iraq to deal with!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  25. Star

    hey YAS...

    i have really been investigating what is really going on in that war, and it appears to be more of a cival war, with Iran arming the insurgents that are still rebelling openly against American troops and have not been trained and somewhat forced to fight with the US troops...it is becoming more and more difficult to find al qaeda in Iraq, and it is more of a war against America trying to democratize the Middle East. i know it is not that simple, and neither will be staying there, or bringing the troops home, whomever gets elected...

    interestingly enough, Mcclellan, in his book, states that the real reason behind going to war, was Bushes idea of greatness, and how he would be remembered, had he succeeded in bringing democracy to the Middle East, even though it was through force...and that the idea of WMD, was just propaganda, or fear tactics, to convince America to go along, so he could utopiatize, Iraq...and bring freedom to it's people...and be remembered as a hero(star shaking head in disbelief, but then, Bush has always seemed way off...so, not really surprised)

    regardless of whether that is true or not, i think Iraqie oil was an attractive lure, even if Bushes reason was partly noble, according to his own grandiose thinking...the truth is, we don't have a right to tell others, or rather to force others, into a democracy. what is so ironic, is that we are not benefiting from the oil, and the Iraqies are not benefiting from this so-called democracy...

    of course, it may very well be a blessing, that we have not benefited from the oil in Iraq; we have to remember, that the republicans, especially those within the Bush administration, don't even believe that Global Warming, and a concern for the environment really exists...it reminds me of the tobacco fiasco...i mean really, how hard is it to figure out, that if cigerette smoke is bad for those that smoke and worse for those that don't, then how much more dangerous is the pollutions from our industrial plants and cars? it is beyond me how anyone can be that stuck on stupid.

    the only ones that have benefited from this war, are those individuals and big businesses that support this war, and have made money off of it...the ones that have not benefited, are not only those that have died, and continue to die, but those that live on in Iraq amidst the chaos and continual suffering...to even mention the bill of the war that future generations here in America will be stuck with paying, seems unimportant in view of the devastation that has been done to American and Iraqian lives.

    the truth of the war, seeing that Al qaeda was really a non-issue where Iraq was concerned, is that while we have focused on democratizing Iraq, Al qaeda has actually strengthened itself, because of the Iraqian war. Pakistan is a hot-bed for recruiting and training, and Iran, who-the-fuck really knows what is going on there...

    i would not want to be the one that is responsible for cleaning up this mess...and i would not dare suggest that i know how it should be handled, but i do think that not removing our troops at all, or removing them all at once, both would be a mistake that could hold horrible consequences. i think the solution is somewhere inbetween those two positions...what do you think?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  26. Star

    one more thing, even in my addiction, i was convinced early on...even before Farenhiet 911 came out, that this war was spun; and am still convinced that it was partly due to oil, and maybe partly due to this idea of world democracy, but the thing that faces all Americans now, is what to do about it...i don't think it is a time for anyone that claims to love freedom, and love America, to sit on their hands and just hope it goes away. if we as Americans don't get involved, and educate ourselves on the issues, and how our country is being run, then we have no one to blame but ourselves...

    so many people get all caught up in the drama, and how that is being spun, and the issues continue to not be addressed. most people do not want to discuss politics, mainly because they are not really discussing the issues; they are emotionally involved in a candidate for obvious reasons...i say we lay all that bullshit aside, and address what is really important...i don't care whether the President is a man, woman, democrat, republican, black, white, or alien green...i am trying to determine who would be the best for the Country, and get the job done that needs getting done...whoever we elect, they are not the saviour, they are not fullfilling some imagined biblical prophecy, and they are not perfect, but we continue to be distracted by this nonsense, and the issues are ignored. having said all that, i would really value your input, as an American.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  27. shin
    Member

    shin

    { a black man, vs. a white woman... }

    It is still a mystery to me how Obama can be seen as black man.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  28. Star

    i heard that...and 'what you said!' lol...

    this goes to the heart of how we continue to label people...he's mixed, like most of us...lol

    what is so ironic, is in the beginning, it was said that he was not black enough, too elitest, etc...now, it has been said, because of his association with Pastor Jeremiah Wright, that he is too black, anti-american, etc...neither assumptions having anything to do with the issues...just as, in all fairness, Hilary has been judged because of her relationship to Bill Clinton...which, i can understand it to a point, i mean, afterall, if she were to become President, he would follow her to the Whitehouse, but still, she too, should be judged on her own political merits...whereas, Mccain is revered for his military record, and the fact that he was captured and tortured for five years...i don't think any of that matters so much as to what are their stances on the issues...now...

    i had reservations where Senator Obama was concerned, and not because of any of the drama surrounding his campaign, but because of legitimate questions in regards to his experience; but then, as i began researching his platform, where he actually stood on the issues, and also listening to his speeches, i have become more confident in his ability to really make a difference in the way government is run in Washington, because he actually talks about what he is going to do and how...imagine that, an actual plan, that he is sticking too...lol

    Mccain, i just think he is an idiot in regards to his stance to 'never surrender' in Iraq...it puts me in mind of Vietnam, another place we had no business being...also, Mccain does not have a platform, except to stay in Iraq, and he changes his ideas on energy, the environment, and the economy, depending on who it is at the moment that he is trying to persuade. i don't trust him, and don't find that he has presented anything of substance on any of the issues, except maybe health care, and i don't like his ideas concerning that. plus, he spends most his time, just referring to Obama's inexperience, because that is the only thing he can do, since he doesn't have any policies of his own to stand for, unless of course he is holding back on us, but i don't care for negative campaigning, it reflects from the real issues.

    Clinton, i am disappointed in of late, and feel that maybe her husband has influenced her campaign (duh), and in light of that, would no doubt influence her Presidency...surprise, surprise, i know, but hey, i was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt until she proved otherwise...she is right on on all the issues, infact, her and Obama don't differ on the issues much if any...but again, the only thing she can say against Obama, is his lack of experience...and now i am thinking that that would be more of an asset than not...lol...considering what we have had the last eight years...

    i am still unsure of Obama, not of his intentions, or his intelligence; i will feel better when i know who he will be choosing for VP, and i am looking closely at who he has surrounded himself with; so far, he does not have the attachment to the Washington lobbyest that Mccain seems to, you know, the ones that work for terrorists, and lobby for their causes...how stupid is that? i am also concerned for Obama's safety, obviously, and have to wonder if he will make it too November.

    i purposely listen to the programs that oppose Obama's nomination, so far, nothing of substance concerning the real issues, just gossip, or political poop...

    i have continued to educate myself to be able to make an intelligent choice, and am beginning to think that Senator Obama is the only intelligent choice...i am still concerned about his lack of experience, but i have watched him, and he not only listens to voters, he listens to his advisors, so that is a plus, and like i said, he has a good platform on the issues, and tends to focus on that, instead of personal bullshit between the candidates...not always, but more so than Mccain or Clinton.

    all in all...i don't have a crystal ball, and where it might be true that whomever is going to win will win, i don't think we should all sit home on voting day...but i think we need someone that is not entrenched in Washington politics, and yet, still, is a politician...and knows the inner workings of the system, and is courageous enough to go up against it...he is the only one of all the candidates, that spoke out against the Iraqie war; that says a lot about his insight and intelligence, and even his courage at a time when he was in the minority.

    the way it looks now, i will be voting for Senator Barrack Obama; i have been leaning that way for some time now, and since it seems to be mathmatically impossible for Hilary to continue in this campaign, Obama will be the democratic nominee, and he will get my vote...having said that, if i thought Mccain was the better canidate, he would get my vote...i am basing my vote on what i have discovered about their platforms, where they stand on the issues, what they propose to do and how, and how they consistently present themselves...

    Posted 5 months ago #
  29. YetAnotherSeeker
    Member

    YetAnotherSeeker

    Star, I know you are aware of my feelings about this war! I think it is important for people to be aware not only of the cost in dollars of declining value, but also the cost in lives. Last Monday (Memorial Day) I was in Boulder with my 8-year-old daughter. The group Veterans for Peace had a memorial set up. Each pair of boots represented a serviceman from Colorado who had died in Iraq. They also had civilian-type shoes, each pair representing something on the order of 1000 civilians who had died in Iraq since the invasion. Each pair of shoes also had a name and age attached to it.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  30. Star

    hey Yas, yeah, i did know that; what is more paramount, as i sit here listening to Scott McClellan's interview with Keith Olberman, where Keith specifically asks, if Scott thinks that we are making the same mistakes, considering a war with Iran, that we made with Iraq...he states, and i am paraphrasing, that this is his main reason for coming clean now, before the election, so that whomever it is that wins this election, thinks long and hard on how we got to where we are, and where is it really that we need to go from here.

    McCain and Clinton have remarked that they would obliterate Iran; Obama wants to reach out and conduct talks of diplomacy, which McCain and the conservative media have blasted him for...

    just heard that Denver is going Democratic this year, lol; many of the states that have long been Republican, are going for Obama, strictly on the war issue alone...

    did you wear your Obama teeshirt to that Memorial Day outing? lol...good job in representing my friend...

    McCain has been baiting Obama, trying to get him to commit to going to Iraq, to supposedly see how the insurgency is working, and that we are winning the war, and so, should continue it, on this basis...

    McCains military experience here, i think, does him a dis-service...winning the war, to him, means never surrendering...

    to me, winning the war means peace, and that the Iraqies can finally run their own country, without our interferrance...and most importantly, that our troops, and innocents, stop dying...Iran has made it clear, that until our troops leave Iraq, that that wont happen, so to continue in Iraq, is to also fight this war with Iran, within Iraq...it is a no win situation.

    Posted 5 months ago #

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