Collection of Thoughts

Collection of Thoughts » Collection of thoughts

1. Mary
   Member
   

   

   For all the protection detachment has ( unintentionally) given me, I feel void now. Void of feeling and important connections now. Yet the feeling keeps trying to resurface, so I think feeling is part of our being. I have practiced being unattached to the feeling.. That may be the problem .

   I've been practicing this for a couple years now, and trying to understand it from a spiritual perspective. Detachment has eliminated much sorrow and suffering from my life, but I find my existence is void of joy and exuberance as well. Detachment has brought me grey , nothingness, and yuck.

   So I think by practicing detachment, or practicing lack of attachment to everything around me. I started on this path as a protective measure to eliminate abuse from my life.

   Now I think ? kindness and compassion are the direction to go, will bring more fulfillment.

   We are social creatures biologically. By nature I care about the wellbeing of my children, my parents for instance. Am I out of balance or missing some important point by "practicing detachment" in my everyday existance ?

   I think the key is found in balance , without thinking about things too much . Any thoughts ?

   Posted 1 month ago #

2. Mary
   Member
   

   

   Part of the problem I feel detachment has resulted in, is that I although I feel void of pain, I also feel void of caring.

   I want to care, I do care. I feel I stifle and suppress what's natural in the attempt to detach from what could be possible pain. Its an avoidance strategy, but hasn't achieved the happiness I search for. I feel disconnected from EVERYTHING by detaching from pain.

   I want to give. So I will start. Especially with my children , growing up and attending school far away. With the loss of pain, I didn't know would be the loss of joy . I don't want life to be grey and neutral , I don't like it this way. If God gave us feeling, I should allow my ability to have it. And express feeling, not detach from it. How ? In a way that will be beneficial, supportive and compassionate to others. I think I must decide to believe in some bigger picture than me.

   Detachment has left me void of pain, but without purpose. What is my purpose ?

   Posted 1 month ago #

3. selfseeker
   Member
   

   

   Dear Mary,

   What perhaps you are doing is adopting an attitude of indifference which is slightly different from "detachment". In fact, I don't like to use the word, "detachment" but non-attachment.

   The practice of non-attachment is described as living like lotus leaves in water. The lotus leaves don't stop living under water, they don't stop being submerged in water but they are no way affected by water. Similarly, there is no harm in being in the world but you should not have the world inside. In fact, we must perform our worldly duty with full sincerity.

   Practice of non-attachment must lead us to freedom ... give us the power over the worldly affairs. In your case, this is not happening. I will give some examples which I feel may help you understand the difference.

   i) Lord Krishna in Gita asks Arjuna to fight in the war & try to win but also asks him to remain unattached with the outcome that would come. Can you visualise yourself in the battleground ... the best warrior who must make all efforts to win ... can you do it without remaining attached with whatever be the outcome ?

   ii) Love your children & do everything you could do help them attain their highest potential ... but whether the children fail you or whether they reach the top of the world ... can you maintain your equanimity in both cases ?

   Acceptance of whatever comes on our way with equanimity... no craving or having desires of anything ... this is the key to Non-attachment. It is not important what you do, it is not important what you eat ... is there a craving for what you do or what you do ? Does it make your restless ? This craving, this restlessness is the bondage ... we have to master this art of extingishing the cravings that burn us, we have to master the art of being free living within this very world ... this is non-attachment.

   A child is crying with hunger ... a sick person needs my help ... my family needs my love & support .... closing my eyes to all these duties has been called "Tamasik renunciation" & which instead of taking us spiritually upwards takes us into Tamasik (darkness, ignorance) state.

   Blessing ...

   Posted 1 month ago #

4. Ekanta
   Member
   

   

   Hi Mary, it’s a good and important question.
   Sure selfseeker made a nice replay, but I feel like elaborating it a bit.
   (And since you speak of detachment I suspect you are into either Buddhism or Hinduism)
   Trust your experience, even if you were to meet Buddha or Krishna himself it’s a million times more important (because their real address is in your heart).
   And what did you say? What was your experience?
   1. "Detachment has brought me grey, nothingness, and yuck."
   2. "Kindness and compassion are the direction to go, will bring more fulfilment"

   Is it a contradiction? It’s a matter of spiritual perspective, or experience. You see, there is the duality of permanent and impermanent, even in Buddhism there is Buddha-nature/ phenomena. These exist always at the same time. It’s a great play. There is suffering-attachment (to worldly name/form) and there is non-suffering-attachment (to essence).
   When one increases the other diminishes. The second is brought to life by the subtle feelings like kindness and compassion, not by trying to hunt the first away with attachment to non-attachment.

   What you have been doing (1) is trying to detach from the impermanent without attaching to the permanent. This can only be considered an illusion of ego-mind.
   If you go with the second quote (2) you will attach to the permanent (through kindness and compassion) and then the attachment to the impermanent will slowly fade away by itself, and joy will take its place.
   You can love you children and everyone simply because that is truth itself.
   “No reason for love”
   “No season for love”

   Many bodies, one heart.
   - Ekanta

   Posted 1 month ago #

5. gatesofgrace
   Member
   

   

   Mary,

   Here goes! I suspect this is the first time you or any other will have heard or seen this. It is said without prejudice and with compassion. It is said with a deeper understanding than this one has every had or realized before.

   Consider: chip offers, all that is shared here on the COT has been said or hashed out before. What i am about to share i have not seen here. So once again i suspect this is very much new. It overrides both religion and scripture and overcomes the expressions of ego, attachment, non-attachment and the like. It is founded on a term that is very much overstated, that term is acceptance. "Acceptance" here will be in context to what is all knowing. Here goes!

   Considered within each thought is the expressed will to know. To know what. To know the truth we say. Grimnexus said it best here and on the SDF. Truth is the supreme reality or ultimate meaning whereby truth can no longer be divided or argued against... it is in it's simplest form. One without division and that cannot be disputed. Other discussions with grim and others echoed the need to speak the same language as another. Even though while trying to do so... it was declared i was scared of being wrong. In a sense i was. Even then i was unable to point out further... it was my hope that this would be only for a time. I am hoping that time has passed. con't

   Posted 1 month ago #

6. gatesofgrace
   Member
   

   

   Just read Ekanta's post. Very nice! Love the synchronization of this post.

   You can love your children and everyone simply because that is truth itself.
   “No reason for love”
   “No season for love”

   Many bodies, one heart.
   Ekanta

   Ekanta also shared that she suspects Mary is either Buddhist or Hindu in origin or beliefs. This is in regards to detachment being discussed. I like this! Ekanta is pointing to what i wish to share.

   If we consider that one must attach to the permanent by the dual nature of leaving the impermanent behind. Let's consider that which is permanent. Ekanta speaks about the real address being in the heart. Is this a piece of the permanent. Many bodies one heart. Let me tell you! Is this not practically a quote from Lord Jesus. "This is my body given to you!" Let me continue!

   For some time i have realized that in each scripture read, Upanishad,Torah,gita,Koran, or Christian bible. One does not ever step on the other. In fact, they are very much synchronized in their teachings. All one needs to consider is that the permanence... or for others the divine, or divine-consciousness has always been capable of reaching any aspect of these teachings to anyone who sought them out.

   It has been repeated that the scripture written by the devotees or disciples of the Lords is of a lesser knowledge. This must be true just as each one of us are a piece of the Body. This does gather insight in the simplicity of this truth! Does any one scripture reveal the all? The answer is of course no! For any one that did in the permanence would retreat the others into the impermanence. It would show limits to the consciousness lets say.

   Here's what has been seen.

   The Buddhist was drawn to the body of truth, while overcoming self, but could not see the All of the Divine, while caught-up in part... to that duality.

   The Hindu was exposed to the All of the Divine while remaining in the self and was bound to this "duality".

   Israel, in order to walk with the divine, became the divine in nature or did not, they became duality.

   Islam, was born to the duality and lives it till this day, it's heart torn between the two (Self and Divine).

   Jesus, who overcame duality... Was the Divine!... but who at the time could see this, even amongst the twelve disciples... born of Israel.

   Each religion revealing another aspect of the permanence (Divine-Consciousness).

   Now i say this without prejudice! Hope you do not think otherwise.

   Hoping we could collectively bring this forward for futher insight and possible conclusions.

   Thoughts!

   Posted 1 month ago #

7. gatesofgrace
   Member
   

   

   Mary, i hope this ultimately is shared favorably with regards to your post.

   So, while fearing to be wrong in my exchanges and while sharing, i was constantly reminded that while i was born christian, and would often speak from the limited expression of this aspect... that i could fathom, i was keenly aware that when i ventured past what was given in the christian scripture... i didn't want to step onto the path of another divine outreach and to say something that was hopelessly divisive. On most accounts no one understood what was being shared (lol)... So... in so many ways that was the best i could do while factoring in the ALL.

   Does anybody see this?? In part!

   ray

   Posted 1 month ago #

8. gatesofgrace
   Member
   

   

   Mary,

   detachment or non-attachment

   This can be seen in all forms of expression and from all religions. I like what Ekanta has expressed and i suspect until we are gathered back onto the "All" of the permanence, we will be in varying degrees of what is, within this manifestation and the next for that matter. Even to realize this... is a form of the joy that Ekanta speaks.

   Much love!

   ray

   Posted 1 month ago #

9. fin
   Member
   

   

   Hi Mary,

   May the new way bring the fulfilment you seek.

   Sometimes i wonder whether we're too attached to Hope ? We hope detatchment will fulfill us, or that a better practise perhaps a non-attachive one will take us somewhere fulfilling, then hope maybe a different form of attachmentiveness will bring us real peace when detatchitivism doesn't work.

   What are we hoping for ? Perfect fufillment ? Fix Life up into something palatable ? Find ever lasting bliss/joy once we see the True Way and wake up ? im not so sure all paths go nowhere, nor ever fulfil. Maybe the beginning of a truer way is founded in utter hopelessness where we can relax because in not knowing, not being able to control all the answers anymore.

   Posted 1 month ago #

10. Ekanta
    Member
    

    

    Gates let me elaborate a bit to your post:

    You said: "The Buddhist was drawn to the body of truth, while overcoming self, but could not see the All of the Divine, while caught-up in part... to that duality. "

    For Buddhists the formless divine is Buddha-nature/ Tathāgatagarbha/ śūnyatā/ emptiness.
    Buddha is the discrimination (conscience). Level: individual
    Sangha is society (your brother). Level: society
    Dharma is what protects the cosmos (father) level: world
    You see it’s exactly the same as Christianity but expressed differently.
    The Buddhist focus might be a bit different, like not praying directly to the father, but instead working with attachment/detachment and seeking the formless.

    You said: "The Hindu was exposed to the All of the Divine while remaining in the self and was bound to this "duality"."

    The Hindu philosophy has always had the undercurrent of 3 levels (more clearly expressed in the Vedanta philosophy):
    Dvaita (Duality) – Isvara [God] / Jiva [individual]: different material and separated
    Vishishtadvaita (Qualified non-duality) - Isvara / Jiva: same material but separated
    Advaita (Non-duality) - Isvara / Jiva: same material, non-separated
    It’s like a gold ornament. You can perceive it as form only, as form and gold or as gold only.
    They are not in contradiction with each other. The gold is permanent, the form is not. But without gold there is no form. It’s also a great way to understand spiritual development and can be applied to any religion.

    You said: "Israel, in order to walk with the divine, became the divine in nature or did not, they became duality. "

    It actually has all three levels, but focus is on Dvaita (Duality), with attributes but formless (a hint to go beyond form).

    You said: "Islam, was born to the duality and lives it till this day, it's heart torn between the two (Self and Divine)."

    As Judaism, it actually has all three levels, but focus is on Dvaita (Duality), with attributes but formless (a hint to go beyond form).

    You said: "Jesus, who overcame duality... Was the Divine!... but who at the time could see this, even amongst the twelve disciples... born of Israel."

    Yes, Jesus exemplified the spiritual progress and could finally give the statement: “I and the father are one”. That is the example we should follow. He set the ideal.

    Speaking of the absolute alone has not been done in any religion because it will not really help anyone. The guidance has been according to level and to progress from there. Since most people are at the dualistic state, that has been the main focus and those who progressed from that has been categorized as “mystics”. From the basic state there are Hugh differences between religions, but from the more “mystic” level, it’s more of a different approach. Many are those who confuse the path with truth. Remember one of the commandments:
    “You shall not make for yourself an idol”. Taking the description of a path to the divine or even the Bible/ Quran etc as truth is in the end to make an “idol”.

    Mary listening to her pure heart and following it is actually on the correct way, i.e. not making an “idol” (and Jahve in heaven is smiling happily). :)

    Posted 1 month ago #

11. gatesofgrace
    Member
    

    

    Ekanta,

    Jahve in heaven is smiling happily.

    ...as is this one!

    ray

    Posted 1 month ago #

12. gatesofgrace
    Member
    

    

    Mary,

    As pointed out by Ekanta regarding the triad or persona of the three aspects. Expression that reveals the duality (two) has a perceiver (one). You (we) are that one! While perceiving the duality of the two, it is the perceiver who is the summation of the triad. We see as perceivers by the very nature that, we are enlightened, or perhaps not. Our perception always bringing us to the cutting edge of what is yet unrealized. But if we are not ready to move forward we stall in our perception and it can engulf or baffle for a time. It is only by your acceptance in this as perceiver that we awaken to what has yet been unrealized.

    Amidst all that has been lost and or gained, in acceptance of what IS... lies the joy and celebration of this manifestation. You will find it at every junction, one must only pause for a moment in our quest to actually see it... to accept it. You are perhaps doing so as we speak.

    ray

    Posted 1 month ago #

13. gatesofgrace
    Member
    

    

    Mary,

    Ekanta wrote,

    Mary listening to her pure heart and following it is actually on the correct way...

    Mary,

    Imagine Lord Jesus or Lord Krishna revealing the hearts of their disciples (devotees) upon each one. Then the call comes from the Lord's, "Follow me!" or "Follow this or that!" They acting from the pure heart, decide to do so. It has been this one's pledge for some time... when you point this out to most, they cannot realize this point. Unifying the heart to itself, to a stilled mind, to the spirit... again is the way! Yet, it is the way from the heart that one must do this... not by another! So simple! So misunderstood! ASK! SEEK! OR KNOCK! and the DOOR WILL BE OPENED for you! Nothing can be added toward that which has already been given. The true perceiver is the one who has righted her/his spirit.

    Blessings!

    ray

    Posted 1 month ago #

14. Mary
    Member
    

    

    Its been a week to finally respond here. Thank you for all your considerate responses. I tossed and turned in bed at 4AM a week ago mulling over all of your posts, itching to reply , but instead waited , probably laziness, thinking this too will pass.

    Selfseeker, you said indifference which hit the nail on the head. I want to care , I do care about many things but my detachment has led to a protective wall& barrier I've created from connecting with others. Non attachment and acceptance of all that I "have" in my life is a better focus . ?

    Ekanta, kindness and compassion will help me connect and attach to the permanent. Thank you , I feel affirmed in practicing kindness and compassion. I want to be open to opportunities to do this. Ways to do this ??? ( If I search , I will find this answer :))

    fin, I think I've let go of much hope. what do I seek now ? I know I love some things.. the non-attachment has led to a blankness. What to fill it with? or just sit with it ... I feel content , not exuberant or "manic" , just happy and content right now. thankful. I absolutely love some things. Nature, adult conversations with my children, my dog. I love peace and tranquility.

    Gates (Ray), Remember I said months ago , something along the line of I want to understand you , but had a tough time doing so ? I see you as an enigma.. I tossed and turned with your thoughts and came up with.. I wish to know your heart. Behind all that you say, just your heart.

    I've only studied Christianity for a decade. No other religion or philosophy other than for psychological purposes. "Buddhism will come to the west as a psychology." I fall into that category. I believe we are all connected though.

    Much love and thank you for all your input. xoxo

    Posted 1 month ago #

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