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Time, Space, Knowledge...

(112 posts)

  1. Star

    Excerpt from an Orientation to TSK (in Sacred Dimensions of Time and Space)

    “Time and space offer beauty beyond measure and power beyond reckoning. When knowledge can free itself from the barriers to understanding that we have imposed, we know this to be so. Within each point of time or space infinite depths are available. In the field of space, the potential for transforming insight beckons, inviting us to claim our rightful inheritance.

    Long ago-perhaps when we were children, or per­haps when the human race was still young-we chose a way of knowing that put time and space at a distance. Ever since, we have structured our lives accordingly.

    Yet the narrow line we choose to walk, the tunnel into which we compress our being, does not fit our experience or our capacities. Our lives are filled with countless reminders that time and space are more than we imagine. Despite the limiting identities we assign, the radiance of being shines through. The moment we look, a different kind of knowledge is available.

    The Time Space Knowledge vision (TSK) initiates an inquiry that invokes our own inborn capacity to know. It asks us to take full responsibility for the knowledge we live by and the choices through which we shape our lives. TSK introduces us to the sacred symbols of time and space, which have the power to reveal the whole of knowledge to the whole of mind.

    TSK engages the knowledge that guides us, the time that offers us opportunity, and the space that allows us to participate in reality. The more we understand how these three elements interact, the more the limits we have learned to take for granted dissolve. We do not have to proceed step by step; we can turn reality around … just like that! This freedom is our birthright.

    At present we are bound to a particular understand­ing of space and time, one that makes certain limits seem very real. For instance, we accept that time unfolds from one moment to the next, that our thoughts can only move from one type of thing to another in a predict­able sequence, and that specific events invariably take a fixed length of time. The idea that we could experience an hour in a single minute seems sheer nonsense.

    Similarly, while everyone agrees that space can accommodate a vast range of appearance, we do not ask how to benefit from that allowing. We know that there is no going outside space, but we do not see the pres­ence of space everywhere as an offer and an invitation. We assume that space operates in certain well-defined ways. But who has set these limits? Could there be space within space? What if we discovered that vast realms can fit into very small enclosures?

    Such examples could be multiplied. We think in terms of ‘here' and ‘there', divide time into past, pres­ent, and future, and classify knowledge into known and unknown. Intent on sizing up what appears in terms of its characteristics, we forget to notice that form itself depends on both time and space. Determined to use knowledge to our own advantage, we fail to ask whether there are ways of knowing that operate beyond our claims of ownership.

    In our present way of understanding, time and space recede into the background. Yet time and space are more than just the background for appearance and expe­rience, and also more than special sorts of ‘things'. They are the partners whose dance whirls existence into being. Knowing that, we step into a different world.

    Dialogue of Being

    Fortunately, space and time are not affected by our attempts to tame them, nor is knowledge cut off from appearance when we fail to acknowledge it. This ongoing availability of time and space and knowledge lies at the heart of the TSK vision.

    TSK invites us to see ourselves as an expression of time, space, and knowledge. This suggestion will seem surprising until we actually begin to put it into effect. Then we start to notice the restricted patterns that presently shape our lives, and to understand the pat­terned dynamic that has set them in place. As insight moves from the realm of theory to actual embodiment, remarkable possibilities open.

    The key to activating the vision is inquiry. We can use imagination, visualization, speculation, common sense-whatever helps to sharpen our questions and awaken our intelligence. Good questions are an invi­tation to knowledge to sit at our table as our honored guest. Having accepted our invitation, knowledge brings with it time and space. If we treat all three with appreci­ation and respect, they soon begin to speak among them­selves, giving us the rare privilege of listening in.

    Inspired by the ongoing dialogue of time, space, and knowledge, inquiry deepens of its own accord. New knowledge arises, and while we are not its authors, we can certainly be grateful participants, joining in as creative vision and dynamic action begin to manifest. If the invitation we have extended is genuine, and if we hold it open by vigorously exercising the knowledge already available to us, there seem no limits on what knowledge can do and where it can lead us.

    Multifaceted inquiry has a vast, transforming effect. Space grows more spacious, and seems infused with light. Its countless dimensions easily accommodate mind, easing the tensions that thoughts and emotions so readily accumulate. Responding to the openness of space, time begins to show us new faces. We discover we can find ways to enter into the rhythms that move beneath the surface of time's linear directionality. In turn, a knowledge attuned to space and time is able to command appearance differently. Our human problems may become much more workable.

    All this happens of its own accord. It is as though space has been holding open the door, time has been waiting for us to dive in more deeply, and knowledge has patiently held itself available until the moment we are ready to ask. Now that time has come. Now we can enjoy the freedom that is our birthright.

    Setting Knowledge Free

    If each of us embodies time, space, and knowledge, why must we make special efforts to activate that embodiment? The answer is that we have adopted a narrow approach toward knowledge, turning it into a prized possession. But our attempts to hold on to knowledge have a paradoxical effect. Instead of opening freely, knowledge is cut off, forced into tight corners.

    Each of us learns to seize on certain fundamental facts as true, and these become our body of knowl­edge. But because we cling so tightly to this treasure of knowledge, we may distort it. At the least, we cut off its capacity to grow and take on new forms.

    Suppose that the inspiration of new knowledge con­vinced us to open our clenched hand and let knowledge go free. Would we have lost anything? Or would knowl­edge at last be able to celebrate its own power, shifting and metamorphosing into something far more splendid that we had been able to possess?

    One way to set knowledge free is to rethink the most simple and fundamental questions: Who am I? What am I doing on this earth? How shall use my time? It is easy enough to come up with answers in words-even TSK words. For instance, we could say: “I am knowledge … I am time … I am space.” But these are just words. Can we question the one who gives those answers? Can we question how to question? Can we invite time and space to give the answers?

    In TSK, it is questioning that matters, for answers are just one more thing to hold on to tightly. Questioning loosens our grip on the presupposed. Each time our questions bring an assumption into the light of inquiry, we experience the sense of freedom that comes with greater access to time, space, and knowledge. Questions let us test our experience and challenge the structures we take for granted. Through questioning, we enact a vision of time, space, and knowledge as the great guardians of being.

    The TSK vision invites us to initiate our own ques­tioning, and to judge for ourselves how valuable such inquiry can be. That is the whole of its message. Once the qualities of knowingness are in operation, the clar­ity at which philosophy aims, the radiant purity that inspires ethical conduct, and the penetrating certainty sought in religious traditions develop of their own ac-cord as an outpouring of vitality and sensitivity.

    In TSK, knowledge is primary. The growth of knowl­edge automatically promotes all disciplines and fulfills all goals. Once we learn to set it free, knowledge can celebrate its own capacity, quickly transcending the structures of repetition on which we so often rely.

    Questioning as Knowledge

    Throughout human history, there has been a ten­dency to try to capture knowledge in the form of labels, words, and specific belief systems. But such structures, useful though they may be as tools, do not do justice to knowledge. Systems of belief are the tracks that knowledge leaves behind. If we substitute them for knowledge itself, they begin to proliferate, crowding out a deeper knowing and the inspiration it can bring. When this pattern is operating, creating an opening for real knowledge to enter will require tremendous effort.

    Questioning and open inquiry offer a far more immediate approach to knowledge. When we question our own experience and the nature of what appears, we let knowledge inspire and bring alive what time and space present. When this dynamic has been engaged, knowledge develops freely of its own accord, and life becomes far richer.

    When knowledge is understood as the specific beliefs and convictions we happen to consider true, the value of questioning can easily be misunderstood. From such a perspective, it may make sense not to question what seems well-established, not to risk the destruc­tion of what has been carefully constructed. Knowledge has taken on a substance of its own, and the integrity of this construct must be preserved.

    The TSK response to such concerns is a renewed invitation to inquiry, to awaken a different kind of knowledge. If there are truly limits on what the human mind can know, we need not fear coming up against them. But if those limits are self-imposed, if they arise out of convictions whose origins remain obscure, it seems wrong to cut off inquiry. Why settle for less than might be possible? Why not explore the alternatives?

    Whatever we know or experience as real is also an object of human knowledge. Since we have named it, we know that it depends on the naming power of the mind; since we experience it, we know that it arises out of our ability to interact with whatever appears. In other words, reality as we know it must reflect our own capacity for knowledge. This does not mean that the mind creates reality, but it does mean that mind and what the mind knows are inseparable.

    In that case, could the mind know differently? Simply leaving this as an open question gives inquiry the scope it needs. By inquiring, we get feedback from our inquiry, allowing us to refine our questions. The answers we arrive at and hypotheses we pursue may prove inaccurate, but as long as we do not seize on these answers as the truth, that is a secondary concern. Mistaken views can also be the foundation for growth and new perspectives. Like time, knowledge has its own dynamic. As it changes through time, it also grows, allowing for transformation.

    TSK is not concerned with adding to the positions and definitions that make up the standard body of knowledge. Even its most surprising-or plausible-theories and hypotheses should be heard as specula­tions, as invitations to inquiry rather than pronounce­ments about what is so. Nor does TSK ask us to abandon the beliefs we may have developed. It is no friend of an easy skepticism or cynicism. Instead, TSK asks us to look for the knowledge within conventional knowl­edge-the knowledge that founds our beliefs and certifies our convictions.

    The TSK approach is like adding a catalyst to a chemical reaction: Suddenly things that had long lain dormant began to fizz and bubble, sending off bursts of light and energy. Solids melt away, revealing time, space, and knowledge at work. We awaken our own intelligence and discover something fundamental about our own being.

    Like anything else put into words, TSK can become a set of beliefs or a methodology-one that some people possess and others do not. There is nothing surprising in this, for history shows that human beings love to lay claim and incorporate; to insist on their identities, their ownership, and their being ‘right'. For TSK, however, such an approach is deadly. If TSK is established as a system or an ‘ism', it loses its power to free time and space from the ‘truth' of what we already know to be so. Then the ongoing boycott of knowledge will continue in operation.

    To deal with this danger, TSK requires our full par­ticipation. Can we strengthen knowledge through our questioning? Can we invite it into the innermost part of our own lives? Can we pound on the ‘is' of each ‘ism' and question each establishment?

    Once we commit ourselves to knowledge-to explor­ing it, allowing it to open, and sharing it with others- knowledge itself will do the rest. Focusing on our own experience, our own awareness and thoughts, our own embodiment, we create the conditions for mind to unite with space and time. We can relax our demanding, allowing the fullness of space to open and the dynamic of time to emerge.” (SDTS, pp. xix-xxvii)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Star

    * TSK does not put forward claims regarding an absolute. In fact, it does not specify any form of substance or reality at all. From a TSK perspective, such definitions and claims inevitably generate con­ceptual structures. Once such structures are seen as anything more than tools for investigation, they limit knowledge, encouraging the formation of terri­tories and positions that soon come to take priority over inquiry and insight.

    * TSK does not maintain the existence of a creator or creative force responsible for appearance. Identifying such an originating source is another instance of the tendency to assign labels and then make those labels the basis for limitation. For instance, readers of earlier books in this series might say that TSK attributes creation to a kind of magical operation. But the label ‘magic' is just another way of limiting what arises. The temptation to rely on labels in deal­ing with TSK is strong, for ordinary understanding depends on labels, and we are usually interested only in what we can understand. But applying this approach to TSK or any other form of inquiry will only ensure that what is already familiar to us will perpetuate itself. There will be no opportunities for a new vision to make itself known.

    * TSK does not teach faith in any outside force, nor does it counsel devotion toward a higher being, such as God or the Buddha. It suggests that the knowl­edge we require is implicit in the self's embodiment in space and time. The highest values are immedi­ately available to us.

    * TSK does not pursue knowledge through beliefs founded on reasons. Instead, it proceeds through active inquiry, which is seen as embodying knowl­edge directly.

    * TSK does not investigate a subject located some­where else, apart from the self. It looks directly to awareness.

    * TSK follows no model or doctrine. All knowledge can be a part of the vision.

    * TSK does not structure reality in terms of a hierar­chy that proceeds from higher to lower or good to bad. Though the vision sometimes relies on lan­guage that makes such distinctions, the fundamen­tal outlook is that knowledge understands all mani­festations to be equally good. Although the process of inquiry will initially proceed step by step, moving from level to level, this sequence of unfolding does not reflect any inherent characteristic of appear­ance.

    * TSK does not offer any moral code. From a TSK perspective, being itself is perfect, exhibiting in all its facets the qualities of life and beauty. Since this is so, there is no need to seek perfection. The natu­ral way of being is intrinsically sacred. When we exhibit this perfection in our own actions, vows and precepts are not required.

    * TSK does not rely on prayers or ceremonies, nor does it ask anyone to make offerings or practice the accu­mulation of merit. As ritual it offers creative action, as ceremony it presents the challenge of evoking knowledge, as prayer it relies on the silent stillness of awareness. Instead of outer gestures, it invites the inner healing of the heart that comes when knowl­edge exhibits freely in time.

    * TSK does not rely on worship. In place of communion it offers self-understanding; in place of initiations, it looks to the natural flow of knowledge within appearance. The natural healing that comes through knowledge is sufficient to cure all suffering.

    * There is no path in TSK: no ‘from' or ‘to' or going from one to the next. All such movements arise within the linear unfolding of time, and TSK calls that unfolding itself into question. Since whatever appears is a part of the vision, there is nothing ‘higher' to understand or unite with. Ordinary mind, everyday perceptions, and the structures of com­mon experience are already the full embodiment of knowledge in time and space.

    * TSK relies on no higher authority, apart from knowl­edge itself. Within knowledge, there are no divi­sions, discriminations, or exclusions. The followers of any school or teaching can study TSK, drawing from it whatever benefit they can.

    * TSK does not require attacking the positions or beliefs or attitudes of the ego. The ego can be seen as a manifestation of a narrow focal setting on time and space and knowledge; it functions as a ‘bias-stander'. As space and time and knowledge open more fully, this narrowness automatically drops away in favor of a more comprehensive knowingness.

    * TSK does not assign guilt or define rules that are not to be broken. Even actions that have harmful consequences can become the source of knowledge. Whatever has happened in the past, we can be grate­ful for the present opportunity to recognize and accommodate knowledge in all its manifestations.

    ­

    * TSK does not directly teach the practice of love or compassion toward others. However, once the nar­rowness of the positions we hold drops away, we find that we interact more easily with others, and out of this openness love and compassion emerge as natu­ral responses. As we grow more familiar with the vision, we realize that we all share the same space, are related in time, and speak a shared language that embodies knowledge. Any basis for discrimination between self and others falls away.

    * TSK does not separate the real from the fictional in any ultimate sense. From a TSK perspective, what­ever we do can be understood as the play of time in space. However, the play does not reject what is seri­ous, nor does it mistake being playful for seeking out amusements. To play without concern is to respond appropriately to all concerns, and being playful does not mean ignoring or rejecting the meaning of what arises. This is play as exhibition: action as the appearance of beauty.

    * TSK does not emphasize good works or benefiting others through acts of charity. However, TSK spon­taneously offers the knowledge that can bring an end to suffering and release pain into knowledgeability. In this sense, the vision itself is a gift.

    It may seem from this list that TSK is hostile to sys­tems of belief that make claims about reality or proper forms of conduct. But this conclusion would only limit the vision. Devotion and rituals do not ‘belong' to the TSK vision, but they do not contradict it. The path of religion can open to knowledge, and so can the path of science. Nothing in the vision precludes drawing on such traditions and approaches.” (Dynamics of Time and Space, pp. xvi-xxi )

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. Star

    i just finished reading Time, Space, And Knowledge...my official introduction to this new vision...although i had had some experience with it through others on another site, i remained skeptical, thinking "OMG...another belief system" lol...

    the difference of this vision, is that it uses our very existence, the very reality that we as human live each day, to open us up to new and powerful ways of thinking...and being this knowledge...in this magical dance of space and time...

    i have to tell you all that i am quiet impressed with this vision; b/c i am actually experiencing the results...or if you will...living the vision...

    each of us has within our own awareness this amazing ability to know...and for that knowing itself to be a creative force and power in our own lives as well as the lives of those around us...all we have to do is to be willing to open up to it...in space and time...

    i have used many teachings along this journey of life to address my spiritual depths within...but i have always found them lacking...sure, they got me to a certain point...a certain place of clarity, and for that i am ever grateful...but the place they took me was still a confining place...a place where awareness can get stuck...and feel trapped once again...sending it either to run for the mountains and hide, or back looking and searching for something...always something...missing...yet to be apprehended or attained...hidden...from view...never really understanding why i am...why what is is...how to make sense of the world in which i live day to day...and my own awareness of what is seen...

    by using the very things that allow for this human life that i am living...space which allows for appearance, time which allows for experience of appearance, and knowledge which flows from the marriage of the two...i finally feel home...

    this is a magical time for me...not in the sense that it is 'out of this world' magical...it is the magic of the real that i live every day which is in this world that is so amazing...

    my first experiences with tsk, were at first just reading what others had posted concerning their experiences...what i noticed however; was that i was actually able to experience this journey of opening up, right along with their descriptions of it...

    we tend to 'close down'...isolate, even if our own awareness is clear, when we do this, we are in actuality shutting ourselves off from the very knowledge that is within this realm of space and time...and it is all around us...through us...through all being...and it is very powerful...

    last night, i was able to experience this wondrous power available to me and all of being when i went to a dinner party...i was still glowing with openness from having read this amazing acount of this vision of tsk, and i had so much energy...not in a hyped up kinda way...but in a balanced, harmonious, open way...

    anyway, i felt like i was just floating in and out of different worldspaces...as i looked outside into the evening sky, the colors were magnificent...i felt myself opening up to the sky and its beauty...i felt the sensations of the trees rustling their branches, and even the dimming light seemed to bathe me with its comforting glow...through my very being...as if including it in its space...i opened to it...

    i went outside and sat on the porch swing, as the night had dropped within this space that even opened up more...to include the sensations of the breeze that at first was very cool and comforting from the warmth that had filled the space of the house i had just stepped out of...

    the wind picked up and i noticed the difference of sounds...then a melodic windchime entered the space of what i was hearing, feeling, and seeing...and more beauty was allowed within space...time was floating...

    the cold blew me back inside where my friend was still cooking...another was on the internet checking to see where his brothers flight was...and more space was opened...allowing time to flow upon it...nonrestricted...

    as the others arrived for dinner i found myself in the kitchen helping my friend...it was like this amazing dance of being...all appearing in space, and time allowing for the interactions to take place with such grace...never pushing...not hurried...just naturally being...

    i was amazed at the play off each other and how simplistically sychronized it seemed to be...but not in a certain way...just flowing...laughter...chitchat...the food was amazing...we raised our glasses and toasted to 'good friends, good food, and good living'...

    as we moved into the living room, i noticed everything was more brilliant...space had a glow...and that glow was feeding off itself...opening up even more space...where the conversations flowed from one to another to another...again, like a dance that was not rehersed...just allowed to be...in this space...no one was hindered from expression...no discomfort...just sharing knowledge...intelligently...allowing for differences to not be different...just a flow of ideas...in the moment of this open time and space that danced with knowledge of being...

    the night seemed to go on and on...space allowing for many more appearances, ideas, interaction...and still today...there is this flowing...openness as i sit here typing remembering time...its flow...the space which allows for all appearance and experience...opening even more...knowing itself...amazing...

    this knowledge that is ever present...ever alive for us to continually experience in being...is available to us all...space allows for its appearance...and time does not
    restrict its flow...if we open to it...knowledge is known as being itself...

    well wishes for all...always, star...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. Star

    another world...

    experiencing another world...
    alive...in space and time...
    where knowledge opens up to bloom...
    such wonders of the mind...
    everything is brighter...
    dancing in its play...
    time it is now flowing...
    intertwined with open space...
    what a wondrous vision...
    with no decided view...
    no rigid, concrete, dictate...
    just an ever present new...
    vibrant in its being...
    like lovers as they dance...
    open, perfect, knowingness...
    floats you in times trance...
    and yet it is so vivid...
    space filled with clarity...
    dancing in this space and time...
    with knowledge pure and free...
    StarLight Dancing...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. fin
    Member

    fin

    star, i just wanted to say the last two posts brought a warm smile : )

    (ps: haven't read tsk properly)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. Star

    i am pleased that i could bring a smile to your face...joy*

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. Star

    fin, i think Time, Space, And Knowledge would really resonate with you...i have to admit that it is changing my life and opening up my world and awareness in magical ways...

    *

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. Starss

    Sounds like you had a very natural "acid trip", and that is wonderful. It happens
    when you stop thinking and allow yourself to bring in those awarenesses. Or as the
    Beatles would say "Let it be".....

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. Star

    starion...lol...it is ongoing...but acid is one drug i do not have any experience with...so i cannot really speak to that...but i do know that it does not mean that i stop thinking...thinking is constantly used in inquiry...infinitely...

    it is more like unwrapping a christmas gift...forever...lol...each bow that is taken off brings an integration of the knowledge it gives...then that knowledge inspires you to the next bow...and the next...as many bows as space allows...as much inquiry as time unfolds...in a flowing experience...knowledge has no directedness...no point at which it becomes 'the truth' or concrete...it flows as an infinite living creature...and it is infused in the space which allows for it, and time which unfolds it...simply heavenly journey of expansion and opening and knowing! lol...

    joy*

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. Star

    "When we use knowledge as a means for attaining pre-established ends, not only the ends themselves, but also the claims of identity and territory on the basis of which desired ends are defined are placed outside the domain of inquiry." (Love of Knowledge, p.37)

    i love this quote...very powerful...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. Star

    talk about time being a revealer of knowledge...lol...i needed tsk at this very time...i was drifting towards scientific theory, and instead of continuing to use that as well as any other system of beliefs as a pointer...i was becoming rigid in my beliefs...lol...

    tsk vision keeps the vision open to inquiry...i find that to be the way coolest thing...it prevents our structures of belief from being conclusive absolutes...and allows knowledge to be a more fluid accumulation and ever evolving living and breathing organism in its own right...

    my ways of expression my be inadequate...but i am totally jazzed about this...

    joy*

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. fin
    Member

    fin

    hey star re ~ "fin, i think Time, Space, And Knowledge would really resonate with you...i have to admit that it is changing my life and opening up my world and awareness in magical ways..."

    Star, it very kind of you to say that and reading the second post, you're correct, it does resonate & am very happy tsk helps in someway.

    tsk seems, imo, useful and in some ways not so different from many slices of Buddhism & thats' meant that as a compliment.

    Initially, i thought the same thing as you, 'Oh, great another belief system', lol. Its quite amazing how memory dances with such tendencies of thinking ...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. Star

    well, what i am finding...is that it is not a belief system...but it does not exclude them...it has given me, and continues to give me an opening up of my ideas concerning belief systems...an ongoing revelation of knowledge if you will...revealed through inquiry...amazing...

    instead of rejecting them...as i did go through a stage of my own development, that i think is a natural stage of the evolution of consciousness itself...where i was beginning to think i must be an atheist...lol...

    what i continue to find is that the very nature of my being was rejecting these ideas that are frozen...whereby they lack flexibility and room to expand...and they tend to stagnate potential...freezing it into absolute truths...or beliefs...even science does this, as you and shin so adequately said in previous posts...that was not lost on me...lol...i honor the wonderful way that knowledge is forthcoming through all of being...knowledge is an ongoing dance in space and time...

    getting back to tsk being another belief system...it can be...if we try and make it an absolute theory instead of the ongoing process of inquiry that it is...although i don't see any need to have a particular set of religious beliefs...i do not have the inclination to dissolve them in others as i once seemed to have...in fact, i can actually include them within space...alllowing for their appearance...but not attaching any specific meaning to even that...lol

    tsk is a tool...but one that i find quiet amazing in the sense that it allows for individual discovery...but in its very essence is the gentle reminder to hold none of this knowledge discovered as an absolute...that again causes freezing of structures and prevents a natural inquiry into the limitlessness of knowledge itself...

    anyways, i just knew this would resonate with you...b/c we are much alike in our being...as we all are...underneath all that we freeze...there is that which cannot be frozen...

    timing is everything i suppose...when we think we know...it prevents us from knowing...

    much love to you dear being....lol...isn't life wonder-filled? joy*

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. Star

    Disowning Tension...

    The temporality associated with tension and fixed patterns depends on a sense of the self who organizes, interprets, and 'owns' the situation. To experiement with this orientation, focus instead on the self a part of the 'given' content of the situation. Watch loosely but alertly, using this expanded view to shift awareness from the content of the situation. You may touch more directly the energy of time.

    Opening Time...(p.41 Love of Knowledge)

    practice notes...

    the conversation with gracie on the abraham thread made me feel so tense...it filled me with a sense of dread at having to believe in someone elses reality, that no longer applies to my own vision of reality...and the judgments of doom that come with that belief...it made me feel sad for him...as i thought him to be confined in that awful space...and it also made me feel helpless as to having to figure out a way to circumvent and open up those very belief systems that brought me such grief along my journey...

    as i experimented with allowing myself to become part of the 'given' content of the situation, immediately there was a relaxing of tension...an opening up...a letting go of the idea that there is a sense of self to organize, interpret, or own...anything...

    as i allowed just pure being to be...not only was mind relieved of the pain or discomfort of confrontation and division...i also noticed that the physical tensions were released into the flow of being...i began breathing deeper...there was no more threat to being to attach to nor any focus on anything threatening...or demanding that i as a self had to give any concrete absolute answer of understanding to anyone or anything...for there was only being...free of any meaning frozen in time...time was released into an all welcoming space...and it flowed again...nonrestricted...

    amazing! every experience in time unfolds opportunity to open up space...presenting a living and breathing knowledge within the knowingness of being...

    in further looking...it is also seen that the very 'ideas' that i have concerning others 'ideas', are themselves fixed positions, and can also be released into the stream of ever-flowing being...just an ever opening up...space...allowing for more room...with more points of distinction being allowed to unfreeze...time is allowed to unfold in a less specific manner.

    could possibly the energy of time be within that very discomfort i was feeling? by trying to trap time...would not the natural affect of that be tension? and so, would that very tension be the energy of time? and would not the realization of this be knowledge itself? i can see how space and time are feeding off each other to perpetuate knowledge...an opening of space to allow tension, automatically decreases tension in time...awesome...lol

    joy*

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. Star

    i just finished reading this, and found it to directly relate to the conversations we have been continually having on this forum in regards to beliefs...it certainly gives some insight as to why our conversations continue to be carried out in a nonproductive circular motion...of who is right and who is wrong...anyways, i found it very insightful and in line with my own understanding and attempts at discovering the limitations of our beliefs...hope you all will as well...much joy*

    REPLACING KNOWLEDGE WITH BELIEF

    Whenever we need or desire knowledge, we are free to investigate for ourselves the limits of what is already known. Most often, however, we do not choose this course. Instead, we turn to an established authority, adopting the content of a knowing made available in advance. Whether we look to tradition, the instruction of parents, the advice of friends or experts, the guidance of a supernatural power, or perhaps simple the accumulated memories of prior acts of knowing, the outcome is the same: the substitution of a belief for knowledge.

    Once adopted, a belief operates in a characteristic way. The mind classifies or labels experience in conformity with the belief and draws conclusions accordingly, perhaps 're-presenting' the result as potential content for a new belief. The structure so determined screens out direct knowledge of experience itself.

    In establishing this structure, the key step is the acceptance of the content of the belief as trustworthy. Although we 'know' the content of the belief as content, we adopt the belief not because we know its content to be true, but because we accept the authority of its source. It is this acceptance that makes the belief a belief.

    The accepting of a higher authority entails no knowledge, only the hope or conviction that the transmitted belief has been safely captured and that it 'encloses' accurate knowledge. What then is the basis for yielding to the authority of a source whose knowledge we cannot directly verify? We might reply to such a question with specific explanations and arguments intended to establish the 'trustworthiness' of this or that specific authority. More fundamental than any such explanations, however, is another belief: the implicit notion that we ourselves lack knowledge, that someone or something else has greater access to the knowledge we need.

    Perhaps it seems that this belief, at least, can be traced to a more direct knowing, for daily experience confirms at every turn that we lack access to the knowledge we need or want. But this lack may reflect the basic belief in our own not-knowing, rather than confirming it. Perhaps we do not know simply because we have forgotten how to make contact with knowledge, or else because we do not make the effort to do so. Perhaps we originally accepted a belief in our own not-knowing for reasons that suited our needs at the time, or have carried it forward unthinkingly from the original state of not-knowing that characterized the first years of our lives.

    Present knowledge insists that there are fixed limits on our ability to know, such as the physical limits that situate the self in space and limit it in time, or endow the body with specific attributes. Would such fixed limits operate in the same way if conventional belief structures were not in effect? For example, if our belief in the self shifted, would new possibilites for knowledge open?

    BELIEFS AS CARRIERS OF KNOWLEDGE

    If beliefs could truly communicate knowledge, the only thing standing between us and knowing would be correct judgments as to which beliefs were trustworthy. This state of affairs, however, does not seem to apply. Even assuming that beliefs are
    'carriers' for the knowledge we are lacking, there seems to be no way that we could benefit fully from that knowledge.

    In the first place, the communication of knowledge through the transfer of beliefs will
    succeed only to the extent that we have the capacity to understand what is being communicated. Qualities of perception or awareness implicit in the belief will be lost in the course of transmission if they lie beyond the range of our own experience. We will receive from beliefs a knowing that has been leveled down to conform to our own lack of knowledge. In this sense, the belief as we receive it is a projection of the activity of our own mind.

    Second, when we rely on beliefs we are accepting a structure that posits our own lack of knowledge and confirms our needs and wants as the basis for all action. The limitations that these presuppositions establish will continue to operate, no matter how subtle and refined the system of beliefs to which we give our allegience.

    Third, beliefs interpose themselves between our own experience and our knowledge of that experience. No matter how comprehensive the belief, it will leave the experience itself unknown.

    Finally, even if a belief contains 'true' knowledge, we have no way of knowing whether that knowledge is complete. We could only determine this on the basis of another belief. As long as we 'import' knowledge from outside our own knowing, we will lack the capacity to determine the depth and the scope of what we know.

    In relying on beliefs, we are accepting an imperfect substitute for knowledge. Perhaps this seems necessary if we are to gain access to a vast range of knowledge outside our direct experience, but the result is just the opposite. We choke off knowledge that we might develope on our own, without escaping the limitations of knowledge we have already adopted.

    When beliefs replace knowledge, vision is foreclosed, leading to stagnation. Beliefs may be accurate in their content and useful in their operation, but in being passed from one person to another, they bypass our most fundamental concerns. We touch the true significance of a belief only by discovering for ourselves the knowledge it embodies.

    (Love of Knowledge; Chapter Seven)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. David
    Member

    David

    I was watching a discovery series on the universe and how it is expanding, all scientifically explained starting with the big bang. this series explained that the universe is expanding in all directions and will never stop, Right from the start stars, planets, galaxies, even our own sun and solar system is slowly being pulled apart from that initial big bang. At the point of explosion and within the first few milliseconds there was so much heat that the atomic molecules turned to a liquid substance that was completely frictionless, and within a vacuumed space would hurl matter and anti-matter into an endless motion

    What I found intriguing was eventually all matter will disintegrate and disapear, leaving a black void as if it was the start point of the big bang once again

    I just marvel at the scale of the enormity of space and the time scales involved in creating it

    I am in stunned wonder

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. Star

    i am stunned in wonder also...but think about this...take that beginning and go the other way with it...

    mind blowing indeed...lol...infinite possibilities...and none of them are absolutes...as they continue to give birth to new ideas...new possibilites...seems like the only absolutes there are, are the ones we focus on and create ourselves...but even that is not absolute...lol

    and you might also be able to see that it is not really a beginning at all except in the way that we express it...science has not found the language to articulate what they are finding in physics...they are also stunned...lol

    thnx for your post...*

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. fin
    Member

    fin

    Hi Jamie, nice post, hope you're well & will share more

    #
    "When we use knowledge as a means for attaining pre-established ends, not only the ends themselves, but also the claims of identity and territory on the basis of which desired ends are defined are placed outside the domain of inquiry." (Love of Knowledge, p.37)"

    Hey Star, really enjoyed that quote.

    #
    Its interesting, you mentioned, how many conversations go in a circular motion here on COT, and how Shin recently mentioned 'shutting up' on COT. Its back to doors, again ,lol

    Star, I'v appreciated All that we've shared. Even when there appeared to be pig crap flying around. Even that has a useful purpose. lol.

    So thanks, girl. : )

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. Star

    fin...put your glasses back on...lol...that was david posting, not jamie...she's been circling around but has not landed on my threads yet...LOL...

    yes i have enjoyed our back and forth as well...your posts in the past have irritated me at times...lol...but i see that as my having a 'focused' view...about your intentions...which there is no way for me to really know those when my own ideas concerning them are 'fixed'...make sense? and so, many times your posts have made me think, and inquire concerning that view...and that view has then been allowed to open...so i thank you...i can see more clearly as to what your intentions really are now...b/c i am more open...lol

    the mind still tries to freeze things in the stream of awareness...it is a conditioned response...and one that continues to be revealed...as awareness continues to open...

    i am really enjoying reading Love of Knowledge...i think why i resonate with these writings so well, is my very distain for beliefs that control and manipulate...being is free...and any point that attempts to freeze it...is groundless...lol

    he has written some very interesting chapters on how the human mind works...and how it is already conditioned to view the present from discriptive knowledge of the past, and also the future gets 'tied down' in that as well...he also talks alot about conventional knowledge...and the fact that it is already established on a model based on our inadequate ways of thinking...the main thing i love, is that he does not just give you a read out of what is true or what is not true...the very way he communicates encourages mind to think and inquire for itself...amazing...

    warm wishes...star...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. fin
    Member

    fin

    ahhh, there they are, those glasses *grabing a coke bottle*

    Hi David, apologies, brother, silly me ...

    Star, ahhh, i'll probably still irritate you sometime, but i can stop any niggle alltogether, and be really politically correct if you really need [..hehehe..] but, cant see you needing that. Actually you inspired me by your wisdom to go beyond our thoughts about each other...

    "the mind still tries to freeze things in the stream of awareness...it is a conditioned response...and one that continues to be revealed...as awareness continues to open..."

    nicely said star : )

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. Star

    thnx fin...*

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. David
    Member

    David

    ahhh, there they are, those glasses *grabing a coke bottle*

    Hi David, apologies, brother, silly me ...

    LOL..

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. Star

    i awoke this morning with such a sense of being flowing...i am beginning to understand that what we take into our consciousness over the course of a day matters less than how we interpret what we have taken in...we are so use to grasping on to meaning, which is so attached to emotion...and so dependant upon a past to frame it...that we continue to be unable to explore our reality of present in new and exciting ways...

    seems like everything we do is controled by the structure of the past...whether it is the recent past or distant past, we live our lives out of the box of the past and allow it to dictate or define our present...to venture into the unknown is taboo...and so we are caught up in the circle of cause and effect...and although there may be glimpses of what is considered 'happy, joyous, and free'...it does not last b/c our past wont allow us to be free in the present...and it continues to define and guarantee a similiar...future...

    how can we avoid this? how do we bust out the box? how can we open new ways of experiencing our world without escaping it?

    time, space, knowledge gives us a new way...by experiening what we are familiar with in unfamiliar ways, we open to a new way of experiencing...

    opening up being is an infinite journey...and it is using the very things that make up this reality in which we live...time and space...

    there is a bird singing to me outside my window...and in the distance is a beeper going off on a truck...upstairs my neighbors are stirring...the sky is wearing its blue today...and i feel like i am that blue...bathed in light and warmth from the sun...being can open to space and allow whatever to appear, room...when opening up to space in this way...it immediately brings a relaxing sensation of well being...it can be done anywhere...anytime you are feeling distressed, rushed, sad, or overwhelmed...or even crowded...open up a space for more room...try it, see what happens, and post your experiences here...even if you think it to be ridiculous, just give it a try next time you are feeling a little trapped inside...take a deep breathe and open up to space, and experience time as pure being...

    much love and joy in being...always, star...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. Star

    knowing...time and space...

    beyond the meaning of our given...
    is a world of knowing to tap...
    consisting of our given itself...
    in and out of every gap...
    threaded through each moment...
    not biased by its weave...
    always opening...opening up...
    free to stay or leave...
    a point to ponder, or release...
    within the flow of being...
    dancing now in space with time...
    gives this being freeing...
    the little things we hold on to...
    grow enormous...crowding space...
    yet when we finally let go...
    being takes its place...
    ever reaching outward...
    never restricted by our time...
    space allows for all things...
    even relaxing of the mind...
    what new adventures can be had...
    new worlds in which to play...
    creative, energetic knowing...
    all here in time and space...
    StarLight Dancing...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. Star

    a space and time that flow...

    up from the desert of the real...
    that we've grown use to living...
    there flows a fountain of knowing...
    it's wisdom freely giving...
    confined by dry and lifeless land...
    we start to see new life...
    as participants in creating...
    from darkness springs new light...
    looking through this vision...
    the desert comes alive...
    there's new grass growing everywhere...
    that never seems to strive...
    sprinkling now such beauty...
    it's daisey's in a row...
    that also brings the birds to sing...
    within this time all flow...
    glorious space that allows for such...
    need never be too full...
    tis only our focus in being...
    that seems so dead and cruel...
    open up with grace of being...
    and you will surely know...
    a world of wondrous adventure...
    in a space and time that flow...
    StarLight Dancing...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. Star

    “Ordinarily we assign all significance to what is known; to what exists and to the distinctions among existents. ‘Zero' in this context reduces a separation that might otherwise be ‘meaningful' to ‘nothing', and so is interpreted as a loss of knowledge. But this view, which looks past the ‘zero point' to the content of what manifests, also loses sight of knowledge. When we focus on the content of what is known, knowledge as active knowing is presented as ‘disembodied', separate from the known-'nothing at all'.

    Perhaps if we are willing to look through the content of manifestations to the ‘zero point within', we can understand manifestation differently, as the very ‘body' of knowledge. Through a mechanism of transformation that itself remains unknown, accepting the unknown of the ‘zero point' as inseparable from knowing might let us see with new eyes. Our logic, our consciousness, our way of being might change, as though appearance appeared in a new light.

    ‘Zero' implies an unknown, in the same way that not-knowing implies an unknown-an interpretation made by the knower with regard to the limits of the known. If ‘x' is the unknown, the knower assigns ‘x' a value, positioning it through words or conduct, giving it provisional identity as ‘what is unknown'.

    ‘Zero' is such an unknown, for by definition it has no existence, and so does not exist to be known. Yet ‘zero' seems to be a limiting case for the unknown, since as soon as we assign it a provisional identity as ‘unknown', we contradict its nature as nonexistent.

    ‘Zero' as a conventional number occupies its specific point on the number line, precisely positioned between negative and positive. But the ‘number-line zero' is conceptual, an artificial construct that has been ‘measured out' and brought into the realm of the known.

    If we let ‘zero' remain as nonpositioned, its specific value of ‘no value at all' sets it in contrast to what is. This function suggests an unusual formulation: By standing in contrast to what is, ‘zero' grants existence permission to be.

    Although this formulation may seem to go against ordinary understanding, we can observe something similar at work in arithmetic operations. Playing its paradoxical role as ‘nonexistent unknown', ‘zero' opens a place for what is known to be ‘measured out' and reckoned with; by serving as ‘placeholder' it makes possible
    ‘meaningful' results. Looking at numbers more abstractly, we might also say that when ‘zero' is assigned its ‘no value' identity, this identity establishes ‘one'. The distinction between ‘zero' and ‘one' in turn gives ‘two'. From there the world of multiplicity can unfold in a linear progression.

    It may be that ‘zero' plays a similar role in terms of existence-allowing existence to take its own measure, ‘measuring out' a world. Unknown without being on unknown, permitting without defining, ‘zero' unifies all manifestations by defining them as manifestations, each with its assigned place. The ‘starting point' for what is, it is ‘present' within all points. Adding nothing to what appears, simply permitting, it refers all appearance back to itself. As the ‘unknown unknown', ‘zero' is the agent of knowledge, allowing knowledge to embody as all manifestations.

    For a ‘zero-point' knowing, the usual claim of ownership over knowledge would have a very different quality. Instead of being given as either true or false, the claim itself would become an exhibition of knowledge as it unfolded from the ‘zero point' into a specific structure. ‘Ownership' would not have to be renounced, because it would never arise as ‘real' in the first place. As basic ‘qualities' of each position, the structures of ‘knower' and'known' would sustain neither the claim of ownership nor the distance from knowledge through which not-knowing maintains its priority. Instead of determining the range of knowledge available, they would themselves become co-determined aspects of an active knowing.

    If we look honestly, we may sense in ourselves an uneasiness in the face of ‘zero', a reluctance to let it come to the fore-perhaps a fear of ‘negating' what exists. But the availability of the ‘zero point' can be understood very differently. It reveals space as open with an allowing that does not depend on the void, and discloses time as alive with an energy not trapped by the determinism and ever-threatening chaos of linear momentum. It is as though we had discovered a black hole at the center of every atom of existence-a source of power and transformation, active with an unimaginable intensity, open to unknown dimensions of being” (Tarthang Tulku, Knowledge of Time and Space).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. Star

    complete freeing...

    ever constructed knowledge,
    built in structures made by man,
    the wondrous thread of knowing,
    interwoven like the sand...
    fluidity allowing to be...
    positions slip through mind...
    opening always opening...
    this dance in space, of time...
    ever present being...
    flow though bubbles made by man...
    continue now this freeing...
    into rivers from dry land...
    a magic dance, of time in space...
    where nothings really filled...
    where there is only being...
    and a flowing into healed...
    oh open space that does allow...
    and time experiencing being...
    this dance of inner/outer knowing...
    dances complete freeing...
    StarLight Dancing...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. Star

    time and space...

    like a dance between you and me...
    knowingness fills the gap...
    it rises from our being...
    no positions to trap...
    understanding flowing...
    no distinctions made...
    within this energy knowing...
    time reveals in space...
    subject/object awakened...
    to the knowingness which is...
    inner/outer married...
    in sweet matrimonial bliss...
    dancing now like lovers...
    only knowingness between...
    being ever opening...
    time in space is seen...
    StarLight Dancing...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. Starss

    It has always been my theory that this whole universe started with a
    question. "I wonder what would happen if............" and the whole
    set of stuff unfolded from there. "I wonder what would happen if I
    created the idea of human beings that experience life singly apart
    from my awareness, and I wonder what would happen if...." and gee
    with those questions the universe unfolded.
    The reason I think this way, is that everytime I ever got an awareness,
    it was precipitated with "I wonder what would happen if........." and
    oh gee a person could get into a ton of mischief thinking these questions.
    or even "What would happen if I put two and two together this way???"

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. Star

    starion, that question leads us in a circular motion where creator/creation is concerned...we just get more of the same questions and 'fixed' answers that have been given for centuries...based on a system of beliefs...that we have been conditioned to believe...or another system of beliefs that we traded it for...until we get in touch with knowing, and inquire within that knowing in new ways, we will continue to come up with the same 'fixed' answers that we have always come up with...

    i don't think we can definitively say one way or the other...we can chose to believe what we want, or need to believe, or believe what we feel to be true...but that does not make it so...and it just allows us to accept whatever 'ideas' we accept...and it leaves our own intelligent ability and responsibility for inquiry to manufactured belief systems...not based on our own experience at all...we just accept what is easy, and our knowing muscles get lazy, and knowledge becomes frozen instead of being a living source of energy and power to make our lives and those lives around us better...

    a better question to ask is, how do i know? when we ask how, we are more apt to get at those basic conditioned patterns of thinking and knowing that we never really question...when we slice through them, then knowing can be productive and active...an actual experience of knowledge that occurs now and is actually useful in our lives and in the lives of others.

    thanks for your comment starion...b/c these are the same questions that i too must ask myself...joy*

    Posted 1 year ago #

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